Fired Up and Fearless with Shannon Watts: The Power of Women's Voices

Shannon: 00:00:00

As the saying goes, if you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu. And right now, women are very much on the menu.

Roxy: 00:00:05

You have to reach out and ask people for help. It's really hard to do that. You don't want to do that.

Shannon: 00:00:10

I love this idea of a virtuous circle. It's just such a beautiful idea that, you know, your courage gives other people courage.

Roxy: 00:00:16

People kind of put up these roadblocks and it's like, I can't feel this. I can't feel.

Shannon: 00:00:20

It's just like.

Roxy: 00:00:21

Just let the feeling go through you.

Shannon: 00:00:22

And it's funny how when you go to therapy, when you think you have nothing to talk about, you actually end up having a lot to talk about, feeling like you're winning, finding your people. Those are really the things that sustain us no matter what we're doing in our lives. I don't think you can live on fire alone.

I do think you have to have what I call a bonfire or a community of women.

Roxy: 00:00:41

You know, I could see how Buddhism, too, is such a powerful tool for you.

Shannon: 00:00:44

You know, my dad, he always laughs that he thinks yoga was the gateway to my Buddhism.

Roxy: 00:00:49

It's always the gateway during the yoga, right?

Shannon: 00:00:51

Yes. Are you 60 and want to go to medical school? Great. There is no reason that you can't be productive and helpful and share your wisdom forever.

Roxy: 00:01:04

Today's guest is the definition of fired up. And she's proof that one woman's voice can become a national movement.

Shannon Watts is the founder of Moms Demand Action, one of the most powerful grassroots organizations in the country, with over 10 million supporters fighting for gun safety and policy change. And she didn't come from politics or activism. She was a stay at home mom who turned outrage into action after the Sandy Hook shooting.

Now she's the author of the fierce and necessary new book, Fired up how to Fight for Justice Without Burning Out a roadmap. For anyone who's ever asked, but what can I do? The conversation is about power, purpose, and what midlife makes possible.

We talk about legacy, burnout, motherhood, and why being told you're too much might actually mean you're right on track. If you've ever felt angry, exhausted, invisible, or just done with playing small, this episode is for you. So settle in.

Shannon's about to drop wisdom that'll stay with you long after the credits roll. And don't forget to follow the iconic midlife wherever you get your podcasts. And share this episode with one woman who's ready to use her voice.

Shannon, welcome to the iconic midlife. I'm so excited to have you here.

Shannon: 00:02:20

I'm thrilled to be here.

Roxy: 00:02:21

Oh, my gosh. Well, it's just so lovely to get to chat with you again. You've been so busy. First of all, how is your summer going?

Shannon: 00:02:29

Is it summer?

Roxy: 00:02:31

It certainly feels like it.

Shannon: 00:02:32

You know, writing a book is such an interesting process because I went from really rallying the troops of Mom's Domain Action. I probably traveled two weeks a month to sitting in a chair for nine months. Like, I felt like it was. I was giving birth. It really took nine months.

And every day you sit down by yourself, it's a lot of solitude. You stare at a computer screen, you think, and it's just a lot.

It was such a difference between what I'd been doing and then you have a year between when you finish the book and it comes out and you're doing all this publicity and going on the road. And, I mean, no one necessarily realizes it's a two or three year process.

Roxy: 00:03:09

Wow. So, like, from start to finish, I mean, were there days did you experience, like, writer's block where you just couldn't even.

Shannon: 00:03:18

I mean, there I was in tears a lot because it is. It's frustrating to try to figure out what you want to say when you have so much to say about something.

And then there are days when you think, who wants to hear what I have to say? Or, what if I don't say the right thing? Or what if I'm just saying it the wrong way?

And I had a. I hired a book coach probably six months in, and that was hugely helpful. I interviewed a bunch of people. When she said to me, I will be your left brain, I was like, you're hired.

Roxy: 00:03:47

Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. So you had somebody you could, like, bounce your ideas off of.

Shannon: 00:03:51

Yes.

Roxy: 00:03:52

Because that just seems so daunting anyway. Like, writing a book. I mean, wow. But you were definitely inspired. What was the thing that really made you want to write at this time?

What was like, okay, I have to put this pen to paper and, you.

Shannon: 00:04:05

Know, I wrote a book in: 2019

And I just wanted to memorialize what we had accomplished and how we did it with Moms Demand Action. And it was very focused on gun safety.

And so then when I decided to step back at the end of 23, I can remember, I was running on the treadmill one night and I looked down and my call said I was getting a call from Maria Shriver, who I. And as one does when they get a call from Maria Schreiber, they jump off the treadmill and answer it.

And she said, you know, I have a book imprint and I really admire your work, and I would like you to write something for my imprint. And I said, sure. What about? And she said, well, you know, what have you learned about women through your career in activism?

Well, that's a very big book.

And so the more I thought about it and the more I talked about it with friends and colleagues, the more I realized that what I had seen over and over again in my work with women is that men are taught to fulfill their desires and women are taught to fulfill their obligations. And I want to encourage them. I want to summon their audacity and get them to ask themselves every single day, what do I want?

And just to have that question top of mind, because, you know, I always say women don't fear their fire because they're weak. It's because they're wise. They know the system is set up to stop them at every step of the way.

Because all of these obligations and all these shoulds are roles that we have taken on either, you know, by defect, de facto in society, or because we need to. But they just become so all encompassing that they become our identity.

Roxy: 00:05:54

You know, I think what you've done has been absolutely amazing. And I think it's interesting because I've been, you know, reading your books, and they're so good.

And you have referred to yourself as an accidental activist, which I thought was, like, brilliant. I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is great. Because it's not like from the beginning, you set out to, you know, create this.

This amazing movement and really put yourself out in front. So what do you think that says to the power of women in midlife to be able to do something like this?

Shannon: 00:06:28

Yeah, you know, I started Moms demand action at 41 after I had been living on autopilot in a lot of ways for a long time. I found myself in a career I didn't want. I found myself in a marriage that wasn't working.

And I had to extract myself from those things before I was able to live on fire. And that's really just a metaphor for figuring out two things. What's limiting you and what's calling you.

And I tried a lot of things in the five or so years between leaving my marriage, leaving My job and what came next. And I want to be clear, I'm not a unicorn. I think a lot of people see what I've accomplished and say, oh, wow, she must be a born leader.

I knew nothing about gun violence prevention. I knew little to nothing about the legislative process. I knew nothing about organizing. I had severe, untreated adhd.

I had a debilitating fear of public speaking. In fact, if you had told me this would have involved public speaking, I probably wouldn't have started the Facebook page.

And I was not the person that someone would point at and say, oh, that woman over there. She should take on the most powerful, wealthy, special interest that's ever existed.

And yet I was exactly the right person for the job because of the values, abilities, and desires that I had personally. So that's really what my book is about. The formula for living on fire.

When we figure out what that is for each of us, we can have big and little fires in our lives to the very end.

Roxy: 00:07:54

Do you think that because you started the movement at 41 that you had already had this life experience? You had lived, you had been married, you'd had kids, you'd worked out in the workforce.

Do you think that that helped you when you started the movement? I mean, do you think you could have done this in your 20s, like, when you were younger?

Or do you think that you needed to be at that point in your life right then and there?

Shannon: 00:08:15

I couldn't have done it. Well, I've always had a certain tenacity. My husband refers to me as being indomitable, and I. You know, I'm just very tenacious.

If I have an idea, and I think it's a good one, I will not let go. However, it wasn't Until I was 41 years old I had found finally the love of my life. We were in the process of blending our two families. I had.

You know, if 10,000 hours in something makes you an expert, I was certainly that in knowing how to build a brand and tell a story and message, something that was critical for starting Mom's New man action. I had become a practicing Buddhist in my 30s, which certainly helped me understand how I wanted to be a leader. I had none of those skill sets.

I wasn't incredibly emotionally mature probably until I was in my 40s. And so could I have done it? Yes. Would it have imploded? Would it have been successful? Would it be something I was proud of? Probably not.

Roxy: 00:09:14

That's a good point. I mean, do you think that, let's say there's A woman out there that's listening and she has a fire in her.

She wants to do something, but she is holding herself back. Cause she feels like it's too late. I'm too old. I'm too late. Like I can't do this at this point in my life. What would you say to her?

Shannon: 00:09:32

You are never too old and it is never too late. And that's a message that I talk about all the time.

You know, there's so much right now about what women are doing, which I think is great because my mom's generation didn't have that right. She was expected to disappear as soon as I left for school when I was 18.

She was, I guess, supposed to take up a hobby and sort of sit on the sidelines the rest of her life. And what I'm so excited about as a Gen Xer is that we can do new things until the very end.

You know, I'm 54 and I feel like I'm just getting started in a lot of ways.

But what I think holds us back, and I've seen this so many times in my career, in my activism, is that women are brilliant and they have this very specific set of values and desires and abilities and they don't act on them. Because I think the true fear is blowback. Right? Blowback is going to come your way whether you do more in your life, whether you do less.

If you're doing something differently, you will get blowback. Now if you.

You may not get threats of death and sexual violence like I did when I started Moms Doing Action, but someone may make a snarky comment in a pickup line at your kid's school, or your mother in law might have something to say about something you missed or forgot.

And women are so fearful because that blowback triggers in us the guilt and shame that either has been put in us by society or that we just intrinsically have as a reaction to not being good girls, right?

And I call these extinguishers in my book that might be perfectionism, a fear of failure, imposter syndrome, a desire to disappear, wanting to murder yourself. There are all these things we do that sort of sabotage our desires and moving forward. And I interview over 70 women in this book.

And it's so important to see that other women have gone through the fire, right? And come out the other side. And blowback is predictable. None of it is personal.

And I also think your ability to live on fire is directly proportional to the amount of blowback you can endure.

Roxy: 00:11:40

That's a good point. You know, I think, too, we have this sort of fear as women of not being liked, right?

It's like, well, if I speak up too much or I'm too loud or I'm too angry or I'm too this too much too that. That people are not gonna like me. So how do we kind of let go of that as well? It's like we always be likable and affable to everybody.

Shannon: 00:12:00

You know, I mean, I. I talk about how I struggled with this personally. And the extinguisher that the blowback triggered in me was to martyr myself.

I did not take pay for 11 years of doing the hardest, hardest, busiest job I had ever had.

Roxy: 00:12:18

You never took pay that whole time?

Shannon: 00:12:19

I gave away all my book proceeds, my speaking proceeds. I didn't take a salary. And in the first few years, I can understand, like, I didn't want to be seen as a lobbyist.

I wanted people to understand that I wasn't a gun violence survivor, but I was really committed to the cause. But meanwhile, you know, we were hiring staffers and other people, and they were getting paid very well.

And I just couldn't get over this feeling of wanting people to believe that I was good and that if I took money, that meant I was bad. And I don't think that set a good example for other people, specifically other women.

And so I talk about three ways in the book that you can relook at that blowback that makes you feel like maybe people don't think you're good or they don't like you. The first is to consider the source. We don't have to consider everyone's feedback as authentic or valuable or even real or true.

You know, when I first started Mom's Demand Action, I had all these people say to me, you're not the right person. It's already been done. You can't do it. And.

And I decided early on that I would listen to my gut and I would decide what feedback I was going to take and what feedback I wouldn't. And when you stop making it so personal, it feels less dangerous. The other thing is to reframe those thoughts, right?

We take that in and then we take it personally, and then it triggers these extinguishers. I interview a meditation guru, Sharon Salzberg, in the book, a compassion expert, Kristin Neff.

And they give very valuable ways about how do you reframe those thoughts so that you were kind and so that you were gentle and generous, Generous with yourself. And then the third thing is remembering that you are a Role model.

Other women, in particular, your daughters, are watching you and how much blowback you can withstand and whether you're going to move forward with your brilliant ideas. And so when you are able to go through the messy middle, get to the other side, it's a virtuous circle.

It's not just benefiting you, it's benefiting so many other women.

Roxy: 00:14:19

That's the important thing, too, because it's like you gotta keep your mind focused on the end goal in that way. Right? It's not just.

It's like getting through that daily minutiae, you know, so because you've experienced, you know, people making death threats, making sexual threats towards you, and just general, you know, blowback, how do you protect your peace? What is the secret, lady?

Shannon: 00:14:40

That's what everyone is, you know, really wanting to understand right now in the world that we live in. And I actually think that's why my book is so timely, because none of us can afford to sit on the sidelines.

And that doesn't mean you have to start an organization. Doesn't even mean you need to be an activist. I think Living on Fire can be personal, political, professional.

But we all need to bring our own abilities, values, and desires to the world. And I always see this work as, yes, a marathon, not a sprint, but also a relay race. You know, we don't have to do all of the work at once.

And I'm using activism as an example.

But if you think about, like, the women who were imprisoned and beaten and starved for fighting for the right for women to vote, they never saw the fruits of their labor. Never. Because it took over 100 years for all women to have the right to vote.

What they did was a true service to the generations that followed them who could build on that foundation.

And so if we think about this as something that we are obligated to do, especially in a democracy, also because we want to get to the end of our lives and know that we burned, we want to leave a legacy. I think that's a very loaded word. Right? You think of someone who started at a philanthropy or someone whose name is on the side of a hospital.

It's not. It's just living a life that is authentic to you.

And, you know, early days of Mom's Human action, I can remember when I was getting all these threats, I called the local police department. They sent an officer out to my home in Indiana, and I told him what happened.

And he said, well, that's what you get when you mess with the Second Amendment, ma'. Am.

Roxy: 00:16:13

That was his response to you?

Shannon: 00:16:14

Yeah. And I knew in that moment I had a choice. I was either going to back down or to double down. And our lives are as big as we make them.

We can live very small and be afraid of what's happening in the world or what people think of us, or we can decide that we want to leave a legacy and that we want to leave it all in the field and that we're going to live big.

Roxy: 00:16:37

So when you were getting those kinds of death threats and then the police officer said that kind of callous thing to you, did you ever stop, like, and kind of think about, oh, gosh, like, what if this affects my kids in any way? Like, was that ever something that held you back at some point or.

Shannon: 00:16:52

Yeah, I mean, there were days. First of all, I was more overwhelmed than I've ever been in my life. Right. It was like running a startup.

And I had to fundraise and I had to do the social media and I had to manage all the volunteers and the volunteer leaders and I mean, it just, it was a lot after having been a stay at home mom for about five years. And, you know, the other piece of it was, as you said, the threats that were coming in constantly. And I didn't expect it.

You know, there's sort of a fine line between stupidity and naivete, and I was definitely straddling that. But I did make a decision early on, which was, if I lose my kids, I have nothing left to lose. And these people want me to back down.

They want me to be afraid, they want me to be intimidated, they want to silence me. And I just, I wasn't willing to do that.

Roxy: 00:17:41

Yeah, you're like, screw them, right? I mean, but it takes that. It takes that, like, fortitude and that bravery like you had to kind of go through.

You know, Were there days that you were truly scared?

Shannon: 00:17:54

had my first book came out in: 2019

And it wasn't just me. Right. It was our volunteers, too.

They would go to marches and rallies and be surrounded by mostly men with semiautomatic rifles, because that's allowed in this country.

And in many ways, I think my refusal to back down set an example for other volunteers, and then their refusal to set down, step back, set an example for other volunteers. So it, you know, I love this idea. We always talk about a vicious cycle or circle. I love this idea of a virtuous circle.

It's just such a beautiful idea that, you know, your courage gives other people courage.

Roxy: 00:18:44

So is that what sustained you? Because we all have our days where it's kind of like up and down and all over the place. Life happens, right?

So is that what sustained you on the days that you just kind of wanted to like, maybe throw in the towel or you're like, oh, I'm so done?

Shannon: 00:18:58

You know, being sustained is a really important point. And it brings up something that we polled our volunteers about. And I actually think that this information is applicable to life generally.

So it isn't hard to get volunteers to come into an organization when there are so many mass shootings and lockdown drills. It is very hard to get them to stay. And yet we had this amazing retention rate and we grew to 11 million supporters, right?

So we decided to pull our people and to say, what makes you stay? You're giving us your time and talent out of the goodness of your heart. Why?

And the two things they said were, number one, they felt like they were winning.

And when people feel like they're winning, when you tell them they're winning, when you explain how a loss is actually a win because you can win the next time, when you celebrate every win, no matter how big or small, and people want to stick around. The second thing they said was that they found their people. And when you find your people, you don't want to disappoint them.

You want to keep showing up because you want them in your life, you want to be with them.

And especially in like the toughest states to do this work, when you find like minded women with similar values, that's really rare and unique and you want to cherish it. So feeling like you're winning, finding your people, those are really the things that sustain us no matter what we're doing in our lives.

And I don't think you can live on fire alone. I do think you have to have what I call a bonfire or a community of women, you know, and I.

Roxy: 00:20:21

Love the fire analogy. And speaking of fire, your book Fired up is so amazing. It feels like part like manifesto, part toolkit.

Like, there's so many ways to, you know, enjoy and apply this book to your lives. So what is it that you want women to take away when they read it?

Shannon: 00:20:40

I really want women to live in a way in which they are asking themselves, what do I want?

There's so many exercises and Journal prompts in this book to help you figure out, first of all, what are your abilities, your values and your desires. That's the fire formula. Women downplay their abilities so much. And so the exercises will make you list everything you've ever done successfully.

That includes planning, maybe a kid's birthday party. These so called soft skills, which is really pejorative, they're life skills and they make you qualified to do more things than you can imagine.

I also ask you to ask other people, what are your abilities? Because sometimes when we don't see them in ourselves, other people do.

And what that does also is helps you realize, oh, there are other skills that I want to acquire. Right. That I either don't have innately or have built. That's really important to know no matter where you are in your life. And then your values.

There are thousands of personal values out there. Right. I just did an event with Brene Brown, who's sort of the North Star of values. And they change throughout your life.

years old in: 2012

So many of us have these dormant desires, thing we dreamed about or wanted to do. I interview one woman in the book, Gisele Fetterman, who's actually married to Senator John Fetterman in Pennsylvania.

And she became a firefighter in her 40s. She had always wanted to be a firefighter.

She came to this country as an immigrant and the nicest people to her were the people who worked in the firehouse on her block. They let her clean the fire engines and, you know, she just was always enamored.

And she's put out dozens and dozens of fire since she became a firefighter. So back to your point of, you know, you are never too old and it is never too late to do what you want.

Roxy: 00:22:28

You know, I love that the formula you give about the fire triangle, like we were just saying, and it is comprised of those three elements.

And so for a woman listening at home, if she literally has a piece of paper out in front of her right now, what are the questions she should be asking herself to find her fire triangle?

Shannon: 00:22:46

Yes. I mean, again, this will change throughout your life. So you could read this book every single year and it would be different.

But what are the abilities you have? When I started Mom's Demand Action, I had a 10 year career in Communications. I knew how to build a brand and tell a story. What are your values?

Like I said, protecting my family and my community. What are your desires? I wanted to stand shoulder to shoulder with a badass army of women to take down a special interest right now.

Your three sides, your values, your abilities and desires will be different. But that doesn't mean that they aren't as important. Right?

It could be again, something as simple as you really want to have a tough conversation that you've wanted to have for a long time but haven't done it. It could be asking for a promotion. It could be finally deciding to use your skills to help an organization out.

There are so many ways to live on fire. But I think a lot of us, particularly women, particularly midlife women, are living on autopilot. Their lives are sort of meh.

They're not what we thought they would be.

Now that said, maybe you're just, you know, out of high school or college and you're trying to figure out what you want to do before you go too far down the wrong path. That makes sense. Maybe you're a young woman overwhelmed by family and career and you need to carve out some time for yourself. This works for you too.

Or maybe you're a retiree and you finally have the time and freedom to share your hard earned wisdom with the world. You know? Another story from the book, a woman named Carol Frick. She always wanted to be an author.

She ended up being a phys ed teacher to pay the bills for 30 years. When she retired, she went to volunteer at an animal shelter. And she came up with this idea of a couple who falls in love at an animal shelter.

She finally taught herself how to write a book, write dialogue, create chapters. Then she decided she deserved to have it published. She didn't want to just self publish.

She sent her manuscript to 218 publishing houses and was rejected every time. Finally, on the 219th time, a man who loved dogs gave her a book deal and she became a published author in her 70s.

Roxy: 00:24:49

Wow, that's amazing.

Shannon: 00:24:51

Yes. So this is really what the FIRE formula will do. It is a practice.

It's not like you figure out these three things and you practice them and suddenly you are turned into something completely different. It really is a discipline and a practice that we have to do throughout our lives.

Roxy: 00:25:05

And it can change from year to year, day to day, like whatever that is. What would you say to women who want to discover their inner fire, but maybe their partner isn't so supportive?

Shannon: 00:25:19

I mean, you know, that's difficult. And I talk to a lot of women in the book who have struggled with that a bit. You know, I will be honest with you.

The night my husband and I went to bed, after I started the Facebook page that became Mom's Human Action, I mean, it went immediately viral. He looked at me and he said, this is gonna be a big deal.

And he did not say it in a happy way because our whole life was about to be turned on its head. And we had just married a few years before. As I said, we were blending a family of five.

And it took a lot of conversation, it took a lot of marriage therapy. This is both of our second marriage. And we committed early on to go once a month, rain or shine.

And it's funny how when you go to therapy, when you think you have nothing to talk about, you actually end up having all goods to talk about. And so it was really a navigation to get to a place where we realized our marriage was a container that could hold both of us, but other things too.

And it really strengthened our marriage.

Now, I will tell you that there's some women in the book who say, for them, learning to live on fire, for them finally figuring out who they were, some of them, through mom's demand action, some of them through other means, realized they needed to leave a relationship that wasn't supportive, and that ended up being the best thing for them. And they finally had the courage to do that.

Roxy: 00:26:30

That's great.

Was there ever a moment through this whole process, book writing, you know, creating this amazing movement that you ever wanted to throw in the towel and just be like, I want to just say goodbye to everybody today. Like, I'm done. I'm done. Like, was there ever. Did you have moments like that?

Shannon: 00:26:47

Oh, yes. Okay. And especially in the early days, as I said, I couldn't believe how over overwhelmed I was.

I wasn't able to cook dinner anymore, drive my kids to their extracurriculars. I was traveling a ton. There was actually a time in the early days where I thought about not doing it because I was so overwhelmed.

And I got this call out of the blue from a woman I knew in my career. And she was just calling me to ask a question, and I started crying. And she's like, tell me what's going on.

And I said, I don't know if I want to do this. I was apropos of nothing. Like, this was not a close friend. It was just.

She just happened to call me and she said something that unlocked something in me. She said, you don't have to do this, Shannon. You don't.

This semi stranger gave me permission to not do it, which helped me realize I did that once I had that emotional freedom to decide, I knew I wanted to do it. The other thing I will say is, and this is in part because of my.

My Buddhism, I think, which is like, how do I manage my ego and how do I make this work a practice to do that? And so in those early days, I thought to myself, okay, this is finite. I'm only going to do this for, I thought, a short amount of time.

And I will ask myself each year if it is time for me to step back. And in those early years, it was, no, of course not, because we're still kind of getting up and running.

Then in the middle years, you know, it was maybe, but then there would be a horrific tragedy or a piece of legislation I had to work on.

And then finally, about 11 years in, I can remember standing in the Rose Garden, we had finally passed the first federal gun safety legislation in a generation. And I was watching President Biden sign it into law. And I had this inner knowing, inner voice that said to me, this is the bookend to your activism.

Not Moms to Man action, but your activism. And part of this is because in those early days, a volunteer said to me, whatever you do, don't get Founder syndrome. Now. I said, of course not.

And then I hung up and had to Google, what is Founder syndrome?

And it's this idea that if you create something, your ego can get so enmeshed that when you leave, it either fails because you're gone and you haven't set it up for success, or you want to burn it down because you don't want it to exist without you. Right?

And so that was the goal for me, which was to manage my ego and my involvement so that when I left, it would be as vibrant or more than when I was there.

Roxy: 00:29:16

So now that you've stepped back from Mom's Demand Action, what does this next chapter look like for you? Are you thinking more books? Are you thinking, like, getting involved in something else? Like, where's your head right now for the next chapter?

Shannon: 00:29:29

Well, you know what I love about stepping back from something, and I talk about this in the book, which is you have to put your fires out in order to start new ones. And you really do need downtime in between. I didn't get a ton of downtime between Momsum in Action.

And then I immediately got involved in the campaign. I don't know if you remember, but I helped Start the largest zoom in history. We raised like $11 million in two hours for Kamala Harris.

I didn't imagine I would do that. I didn't imagine I would write a book. And what is so amazing about the book is that one we've started, Firestarter University.

So in September, if you've bought the book and you've enrolled in Firestarter University and something like 800 women have so far, then it's a free year long online course with people who are in the book and other leaders who myself who will teach these courses and help women in that. That's their bonfire. These 800 women are the women who will lift them up. Right. Going forward. So I'm excited about that.

And then women are taking the book and starting IRL bonfires with the book in over 30 states or something like that so far. And they're going to get together for personal, political and professional empowerment. So, I don't know, it'll be interesting.

You know, I am all about.

I think what I realized when I stepped away from moms to man action is yes, obviously I will always be passionate about gun violence prevention, but the thread that runs through my life is summoning the audacity of other women. And I want to do that in any way I can.

Roxy: 00:30:57

Yeah, that will never stop for you, right? I mean, and you have this talent that you can mobilize people. Women, right, Exactly.

Shannon: 00:31:05

I'm not sure I'm so good at mobilizing men, but yes, women, that's a little like herding cats, honestly.

Roxy: 00:31:10

Right, exactly. But like, where does that come from? Because it's really. You have the language. Not every, even every woman has that.

You know, it's like this ability to kind of, you know, get women so fired up.

Shannon: 00:31:24

a T shirt that said, this is: 1979

My dad bought me a T shirt that said girls can do anything boys can do. And the thought I had was not, oh, yeah, that's right. That's so. That's. Thanks for. This is so true. The thought I had was, holy crap.

People don't think women can do the same thing. Men can. I didn't know until that moment that that was a thing in society. And I really believe that.

I have always felt so strongly that there needs to be parity in all things and that I've experienced this firsthand, which is, you know, women often don't get the opportunities and don't get the access. And there's so many gatekeepers. And I just always want to help women bypass those and have power.

You know, when you think about, for example, women who are elected to office. We've elected thousands of women to office through Moms Demand Action, including our own volunteers.

% of Fortune: 1000

So we have to be pragmatic about the levers of power we can pull. But we also need more levers.

Roxy: 00:32:46

So what is that going to take, do you think? Let's get all the levers like going.

Shannon: 00:32:51

You know, first of all, it is living on fire.

It is creating a bonfire and lifting other women up and encouraging them to really be their best selves and leave a legacy, you know, and help them figure out ways to get past these gatekeepers. I do think there's a moral imperative right now in this country to run for office for women.

Most women don't run until they're 47 years old because they want to have a family and a career first. And I understand that. But we have to make women used to the idea that this can be something you do right out of school.

This can be something you do when you're younger and should be. And I don't mean you have to run for congress.

You know, maybe you're the local county coroner or you're on city council or you're a state house rep, it doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be high, high office. But as the saying goes, if you don't have a seat at the table, you are probably on the menu.

And right now, women are very much.

Roxy: 00:33:42

On the menu, very much so. How much is community like, meaning your closest girlfriends? How important are they to you? Especially at this time in life, in midlife?

Shannon: 00:33:53

There's two interesting things about that. So the first is it's everything.

And it is so important to participate in things personally, professionally, politically, because that is where you find your bonfire, your like minded women and friends.

I wrote about this for my substack because even though I ran the nation, maybe even the world's largest women led nonprofit, I found myself at 50 with very few close friends.

And I was listening to a podcast one day and the podcaster said, you don't have enough friends if you don't have five people, you can call in the middle of the night with an emergency. And I thought, oh, no problem, I have five kids. And then they said, except your family.

I was like, well, what is the point of having five kids if I can't call them in the night? But okay. And I wrote about how I set out on this journey to find those friends.

And you know, if it's hard for you, if it's an effort, you're not abnormal.

Once your kids, especially if you're an empty nester or once we reach middle aged, it is very hard to hold on to those connections and those friendships. You don't have as much in common. Maybe you've moved around, maybe your interests have changed. And so it really does take effort.

That's why I think Firestarter University is so important, because it's connecting people.

But I have just, look, I love my husband, but going on vacation or going out with women friends is a much different vibe and a much different energy and one that feeds me. And given the pandemic, given social media, given how polarized we are as a country, having conversations, knowing our neighbors is.

Roxy: 00:35:32

More important than ever, a hundred percent. And I also think it's so important for women.

I was actually talking to one of my best friends about this, is that you have to reach out and ask people for help. And for some reason, I know a lot of times with women, and I am in that same boat, it's really hard to do that. You don't want to do that.

You don't want to like put yourself out there or feel like you're a burden. But like, if you know people are your friends and you want this community, you have to reach out to people.

Shannon: 00:35:59

Yes. Would you agree with that? Yes. And there's a whole chapter in fired up about, about the kinds of support that we all need.

You know, some of it's physical and some of it's mental. How do you get that support? How do you leverage that support and use that support?

I mean, we have become so hyper individual in this nation and there is something to be said, you know, about it takes a village and it does. It takes a village to live on fire. It takes a village to have a democracy.

It takes a village to know who you are and what you want and to raise your, raise kids. I mean, it's just, it's such an important part of life that I feel like has been so denigrated. And that doesn't mean, you know, we can't get it back.

It's on all of us to work together to try to do that.

Roxy: 00:36:40

Yeah, it is. You're right. Curious. What made you want to turn Buddhist? I love that. I mean, it's so peaceful.

Shannon: 00:36:46

And I was raised in a very strict Catholic family. My dad was in the seminary for 10 years to be a priest before he dropped out and, you know, Sunday school and Catholic school and the whole thing.

And for me, it always felt like leaning into suffering, like you had to suffer in order to be good. And that caused me a lot of anxiety. And it didn't really feel like a rule book for how to live.

And the more I learned and studied Buddhism, the more it felt like understanding there was suffering, but we could minimize it. And everything from right speech to right action.

It just felt like a way to live while we're here on earth instead of preparing for, you know, trying to get to heaven. And it just spoke to me. And I'm just so grateful for it all the time because it does shape who I am and.

And how I behave and interact with other people. And, you know, my dad, as you can imagine, isn't thrilled. And he always laughs that he thinks yoga was the gateway to my Buddhism.

Roxy: 00:37:47

It's always the gateway drug, the yoga, right? No, that's.

You know, I could see how Buddhism, too, is such a powerful tool for you, probably particularly because of what you were seeing and dealing with meditation. Meditation, you have to. Because when you turn on the TV and you see these images, you know, it's so heart wrenching. You know, I mean, it just.

So I can imagine that was a very powerful, helpful tool for you.

Shannon: 00:38:12

Yeah, we're all victims of vicarious trauma in America. You know, we.

Whether we're gun violence survivors or not, you know, we're all, one in three of us have been impacted by gun violence, but we're always seeing it. So I do think meditation is an important tool for that.

But the other thing that is important to me about meditation is that white space we were talking about earlier. We have so little time to think. I talk in the book about, along with a fire metaphor, a controlled burn.

You know, a controlled burn in real life is like this prescribed fire. It's medicine. It keeps wildfires in check. We can do those in our own life.

And I talk about women who have done something as small as put away their phones for a certain period of time or stopped watching Netflix to as big as not drinking anymore or getting rid of all the clothes that are holding them to this unrealistic standard of how much they should weigh in their closet. Right. These controlled burns that we do to free up time to set boundaries and meditation for Me is part of that.

Maybe it's not for you, but anyone can do a controlled burn to figure out how do I have more time and space to think about my values, abilities, and desires and to pursue them.

Roxy: 00:39:25

And then when you're truly unplugging, how do you do self care? Like, what does that look like for you?

Shannon: 00:39:29

You know, I think self care has become such a weird phrase, right? People see it as such a commodified thing now. Like, there's all this talk about faux self care, and I don't mean something you have to invest in.

You know, I'm talking about things that truly bring you peace and joy. Now, does a nightly bubble bath do that for me? Yeah, it does. I take a bubble bath every night.

But does activism do that for me, too, to help other people? Absolutely. So I think we all have to figure out what our form of self care is, and we all have to engage in it right now.

Because when I started Monster Man Action, we decided to have this annual meeting where we got together. All of our volunteers started out very small and grew into thousands of people.

But that first one, I thought, we need to have a dance party at the end of this, because it's a weekend of training and really difficult, tough stories, and we're gonna want some lightness at the end. And I really got a lot of pushback. People were like, that's not the right tone. We're talking about gun violence. We shouldn't do this party.

And I just felt in my gut that this was the right thing to do. And so we turned off the lights, and we had a dj and people took their shoes off, I believe. Woman went to the hospital with a dancing injury.

Like, people went nuts. And it was so good and such a release because it was joy. You cannot have activism. You cannot have a career.

You cannot have a personal life without joy. It is such an important part of all of it.

And so if we are not seeking out the joy in our lives, if we feel joyless, I think that's a really good place to start with self care. What brings you joy?

Roxy: 00:40:59

That's a good point. That's a good point. I think there's a lot of guilt, too, with women.

Shannon: 00:41:02

Guilt and shame. Guilt and shame.

Roxy: 00:41:04

I can't let. I can't be joyous. I have to, you know, be serious. I can't allow myself to have it.

Shannon: 00:41:09

Like what?

Roxy: 00:41:09

Like, how do we let go of that, you know?

Shannon: 00:41:12

And that's really what this is about, right? What are the things that are triggering you and Maybe you're behaving in the ways I talked to you earlier about the extinguishers.

Sometimes we do those things to ourselves and we don't even know. You know, I talked to a woman in the book who constantly was self sabotaging. Every time she started a new career, she would find a way to sabotage.

She even became a bike racer and realized she was slowing down and letting other people win.

Roxy: 00:41:34

Oh, my gosh.

Shannon: 00:41:35

And I think sometimes we do these things subconsciously because we don't want to feel guilt and shame.

And so we have to recognize that we are feeling it that is making us act a certain way and then kind of journal about it, recognize it, capture it, think about it, ask other people who see it in us. Right. That's where the bonfire is so helpful. It's a process.

Roxy: 00:41:56

You have to let it kind of pass through you because I feel like that's another thing. People kind of put up these roadblocks and it's like, I can't feel this. I can't feel. It's just like.

Just let the feeling go through you, you know, so it's interesting. I want to know what you think about legacy and what do you want your legacy to be?

Shannon: 00:42:15

You know, as we were saying, this idea of it's just something that means you lived a life authentic to you. In fact, the number one deathbed regret in the world is that I did not live authentically.

And what's interesting is when I wrote this book, I interviewed, as I said, Over 70 women. Guess what? They told me? And most of them were moms. Guess what? When I asked them, what are you afraid your deathbed regret will be?

What do you think they said?

Roxy: 00:42:37

Not spending enough time with their kids. Is that it for spending too much time with their kids?

Shannon: 00:42:43

Yeah, that's our current regret. Their deathbed regret was that they would spend too much time pursuing what they wanted at the expense of their children. Wow. Right? Wow.

And I interview psychologists and experts and they all say the same thing. One, your kids want you to have other things in your life besides just them. It's healthier.

Two, you're setting an example for your kids that they can pursue what they want when they are adults. And so we need to make sure that these obligations and these shoulds don't become so all consuming, including parenting.

And when you want to make sure that you're leaving a legacy, it is not too late to start pursuing what you want. You shouldn't consider parenting to be a block to that.

In terms of my legacy, you Know, if I have encouraged women to run for office, if I have encouraged women to live their lives and burn until the very end, that will certainly be enough for me. You know, I get asked a lot, do you plan to run for office? I actually just moved from California to Florida.

Roxy: 00:43:44

Oh, you did?

Shannon: 00:43:46

I love being a blue dot in a red state. This is the tenth state I've lived in. Okay. And there's just something to me, really empowering about being the underdog. Will I run for office?

I never say never because that would set a bad example for other women. I don't know. Like I said, I feel like at 54, I'm just getting started.

Roxy: 00:44:05

That's amazing. Okay, what would, if you had to pick the office, what do you think you would pick?

Shannon: 00:44:11

You know, Congress feels very broken to me right now and on both sides of the aisle, I see a lot of performative legislating. It's almost like you have to be an influencer instead of a lawmaker.

I think a lot gets done in the state houses in this country, so I don't know, maybe that's where I would start.

Roxy: 00:44:30

Nice. Nice. So if your 25 year old self was sitting next to you right now, what would she say about you and what would you say to her?

Shannon: 00:44:39

She would say, wow, I can't believe someone who barely graduated from high school and college thanks to ADHD is, you know, now one of the times 100 most powerful people. You know, I, I really made a lot of mistakes and I think that's normal. Right. I married too young. I had kids very young.

And it really took me a long time to figure out who I was and what I wanted and, you know, the values, abilities and desires that I had to bring to the table. But I'm proud of the way it turned out.

And you know, I think a lot of women who are young end up going down paths that aren't necessarily what they really want because of pressure from society or family or friends. I speak to a lot of women and it's interesting.

A lot of women who are immigrants or the daughter of immigrants feel a lot of pressure to be a doctor, an engineer.

Roxy: 00:45:32

Right here.

Shannon: 00:45:33

Yep. And that's not what they want. And they spend so much time going after that only to realize they went down the wrong path for a long time.

So I would love to. To prevent other women from, from doing the same. Yeah.

Roxy: 00:45:45

And really follow their heart. Right. Like the fire that's in them, you know. Do you have any regrets? Is there anything you take back?

Shannon: 00:45:54

I, you know, when you look at your life and the way it unfolded, some of it just seems like I had to go through that fire in order to kind of get to where I am. So I don't think I have any regrets, except that, you know, maybe I should have waited to marry until my brain was fully developed.

But I'm so grateful for the kids that I have.

Roxy: 00:46:14

Yeah, that's true. It is. You know, sometimes I look back and I'm like, should I have dated that guy in high school or college?

Shannon: 00:46:21

I'm like, but maybe that helped you.

Roxy: 00:46:24

That maybe it was a learning experience. Right. So how are you living iconically now? Or when was the last time you felt iconic?

Shannon: 00:46:36

Oh, I made the bestseller list.

Roxy: 00:46:39

Oh, yes.

Shannon: 00:46:40

Yeah. I. I made the USA Today and New York Times bestseller list, and it was hilarious because I don't think any of us really thought I would. We hoped.

But, you know, I have this amazing publicist, and I was going to get my hair blown out, and I was. Had my head in the washtub when I got the call that I'd made the New York Times bestseller list. And that felt pretty iconic.

Roxy: 00:47:02

And then having your hair done on top of it, too. You're like, I can take on the world now. That is very iconic. Okay, so when we have our guests here, we always love to play a game.

Shannon: 00:47:12

Okay.

Roxy: 00:47:13

Okay. So today's game is called Fired up or Fed Up. So when I say the phrase, you say, you're either fired up. Like, hell, yes, you are in. Or fed up.

Shannon: 00:47:27

Up.

Roxy: 00:47:27

Totally over it. So Here we go. TikTok activism.

Shannon: 00:47:34

Fired up. Okay. Okay.

Roxy: 00:47:36

Is there anybody on TikTok right now that you're liking that you think?

Shannon: 00:47:40

I always liked Olivia. Juliana. She's in my book, and she's. She's got a beautiful story in my book about how she overcame a lot of blowback. And I just. I think she's good.

And she's in Texas.

Roxy: 00:47:50

Oh, nice. That's my home state. We do love Texas. Okay. Women being called. Too emotional.

Shannon: 00:47:57

Fed up.

Roxy: 00:47:58

Yeah, fed up. Done with that. Right.

Shannon: 00:48:00

I mean, let's look at the men in charge right now. Right?

Roxy: 00:48:03

I know. Oh, my gosh. It's like a roller coaster, isn't it? The phrase having it all fired up.

Shannon: 00:48:09

I still think you can.

Roxy: 00:48:10

You do.

Shannon: 00:48:11

I do. Okay. And maybe not all at once, but.

Roxy: 00:48:13

During your life, let's say you're a working mom, you know, you've got all these different plates, you know, spinning. How do you do that? Like, how do you. Is it a balance always, or do you feel out of balance.

Shannon: 00:48:23

I think it's a prioritization.

Roxy: 00:48:25

Okay.

Shannon: 00:48:25

You know, And I don't Not. I don't subscribe to lean in. I'm not talking about that.

I think more of what I mean is, let's not limit women's aspirations, because when we do, they end up with all these obligations. Right. So they decide they can't have it all. What can they have? They can have all the shoulds that they've been told they should do.

What I mean by having it all, I think, is the time and space to also pursue those things that really make you feel alive.

Roxy: 00:48:49

Yeah. Very important, because then you're a better. You're better in every role in your life. Right.

Shannon: 00:48:54

You can't have it all means. What does that mean? That you have to do the things that society expects you to do. Only. Do we ever ask, can men have it all?

Roxy: 00:49:01

No, never.

Shannon: 00:49:02

Because they have it all.

Roxy: 00:49:02

They have it all. They do it all. They do whatever they want and they.

Shannon: 00:49:05

Find people to help them do it. Yes.

Roxy: 00:49:07

And they don't feel guilt about it.

Shannon: 00:49:08

I'm fed up about the question. Yeah, me too.

Roxy: 00:49:10

That's a good point. We don't like this question. Okay. The pta.

Shannon: 00:49:17

Oh, fired up. Okay.

Roxy: 00:49:19

Were you a member of the pta?

Shannon: 00:49:20

Never. But I will tell you.

Oh, this is so interesting you asked this, because I interview a woman in the book who became the first or maybe the second black woman ever to be in charge of the pta. She didn't even.

I don't think she graduated from high school, and she definitely didn't go to college, but she worked her way up through the school system because her kid had learning disability, and she became such a force of nature that she was put on the pta. The national pta.

Roxy: 00:49:45

Wow, that's amazing.

Shannon: 00:49:46

So fired up about the pta.

Roxy: 00:49:48

Yeah. Into it. Into it. Congress.

Shannon: 00:49:51

Fed up. Fed up.

Roxy: 00:49:54

If you could change anything about Congress, what would you do?

Shannon: 00:49:56

I would make it all women. Maybe one man. Yeah. Yeah. He could have one man.

Roxy: 00:50:01

Just the token man, you know?

Shannon: 00:50:02

Yeah, for sure.

Roxy: 00:50:03

For sure.

Shannon: 00:50:04

I know.

Roxy: 00:50:04

I feel like we get a lot more done, so. Right.

Shannon: 00:50:07

We need. We need all Lauren Underwoods from Illinois.

Roxy: 00:50:09

Right. Absolutely. Perimenopause.

Shannon: 00:50:13

I mean, fired up about talking about it. Fed up with the symptoms.

Roxy: 00:50:17

Right. Well, the last time we chatted, you were doing hrt.

Shannon: 00:50:20

Yes.

Roxy: 00:50:21

How do you feel about that?

Shannon: 00:50:22

Oh, my gosh. I mean, it is. Was a life changer. I've been on it now for maybe five years also. I just had A DEXA scan.

I have the bones of a 20 year old and I think it's because of HRT. I have no bone loss whatsoever. And all the fog of perimenopause is gone.

I do hrt, including testosterone, so I do a little bit of testosterone every day. My sleep is better. I have ton of energy. I'm building muscle mass fired up. Nice.

Roxy: 00:50:48

Did it take a while to get the right dosage down or was it pretty?

Shannon: 00:50:52

It Even from the very beginning, I felt better, but we've tweaked it along the way. What I'm fed up about is it's not easily accessible or very affordable. Right.

Roxy: 00:51:00

It's expensive, isn't it?

Shannon: 00:51:01

Yes.

Roxy: 00:51:02

So how do we. We gotta change the laws again, right?

Shannon: 00:51:04

I firmly believe we need an organization that organizes women around menopause because all this money that was allocated under Biden is being stripped out. And there was so much that was gonna go into perimenopause and menopausal research and care.

And the fact that there's still black boxes on estrogen and women can't get testosterone, even though it's given. Like, I think when you turn 60 and you're a man, someone shows up at your door and just gives you a shot in the ass.

Roxy: 00:51:29

Right? Just turn around and turn around.

Shannon: 00:51:31

You need your testosterone, sir. Yeah. And yet women have to beg and fight for something that protects our heart and our brain and our bones. So I'm fed up with that.

Roxy: 00:51:41

Yeah, that's a good point. We need to change that because that's bullshit. Gun reform in our lifetime.

Shannon: 00:51:49

Look, we passed 500 good gun laws, including the first federal legislation. We elected thousands of gun sense candidates to office. We changed the culture.

When I started Mom's Man Action, a quarter of all Democrats in Congress had an A rating from the NRA today. None do. So seismic shift in American politics. What we did not account for were all these extremist groups popping up in the wake of the NRA.

Like, we definitely destroyed the NRA's power, but we are just in a moment of polarization and extremism. And I'm not sure which way we will go, but what I've seen is the blue states get bluer on guns and the red states get redder. So we'll see.

But even regardless of whether this happens in my lifetime, we still have to keep fighting for it because it's the number one killer of kids.

Roxy: 00:52:36

It's so terrible that it's still that way. Being underestimated, fed up.

Shannon: 00:52:43

just I can't believe we're in: 2025

Roxy: 00:52:56

Saying no without explaining, fired up.

Shannon: 00:52:59

No is a full sentence. I don't know who said that, but it is true, you know, And I think women are often afraid to say no, and there's a lot of power in saying no.

Roxy: 00:53:11

We feel like we have to justify it if we do. And it's like. Like you're saying no is a complete sentence. That's it. That's all you have to say. Women running for office in midlife as.

Shannon: 00:53:21

You know, very fired up. Just. I think women think that the people who sit in office are rocket scientists. And I can tell you most of them are not.

You know, they just happen to fall into this. And if you are a co, kind and compassionate and concerned, you'd make a wonderful elected official.

And so we just need more women of all ages to decide that they're gonna take on an office and run for it.

Roxy: 00:53:48

The idea that you need to stay in your lane.

Shannon: 00:53:52

Bed up, obviously.

Roxy: 00:53:53

Yes, yes. Done with that. Quiet luxury.

Shannon: 00:53:57

Quiet luxury. Interesting. I think fired up. I don't love stuff with big logos. I. I can't imagine ever having a Birkin bag, can you?

Roxy: 00:54:04

Right. No, no, I just.

Shannon: 00:54:06

Something sitting next to you worth like $50,000. I'd be too nervous to take it out. I'd be nervous. But also just. I don't. I find that to be obnoxious.

Roxy: 00:54:14

Right. I think there's better ways to spend your money too, you know, like, for that amount of money.

Shannon: 00:54:18

Yes.

Roxy: 00:54:19

Yeah. There's like a million other things. Instagram, comment sections.

Shannon: 00:54:25

Fed up. I mean, it is getting to be like Twitter out there, right?

Roxy: 00:54:28

Yeah, it's getting real dark out there, isn't it? Yeah.

Shannon: 00:54:31

I just, you know, I have so many conflicted feelings about social media, and I reassess how I feel about it all the time. Doesn't make me feel great mentally, when all that stuff happens.

When people get in dust ups and it's so easy to argue with someone who's anonymous or you can't see them. I don't think that's great for society.

Roxy: 00:54:46

Do you? Try to keep yourself out of the comment section.

Shannon: 00:54:48

It's so funny that you asked this, because as I was in an Uber on my way here, dumois hosted someone, an actress who was smoking a cigarette and Said how cool she looked. And I. I never make comments. And I wrote, oh, all four of my grandparents died from smoking. So cool.

And then immediately the incoming started and I was like, why did I post that? Why?

Roxy: 00:55:11

Because you had to. You had to. You.

Shannon: 00:55:13

It just makes me so mad to glamorize smoking.

Roxy: 00:55:15

I know. It's definitely. There's no benefit at all with smoking. It's actually bad, kids.

Shannon: 00:55:20

Yeah, it's real bad for you.

Roxy: 00:55:21

Yeah, really bad. Do you read the comments on your own posts or no?

Shannon: 00:55:25

Oh, I. Oh, you do? Yes. And I don't tolerate insults or everybody gets blocked and deleted who's rude or mean.

Roxy: 00:55:32

That's good. You like to keep it positive. And like, yes, that's good. Keep the negative out for sure. Hope as a strategy.

Shannon: 00:55:41

Fired up. You have two choices every morning. Are you going to be hopeful? Are you going to feel hopeless?

And what I have seen is that hopelessness or helplessness is cynicism and it's an excuse for inaction. You know, things are bad, but you decide not to do anything about it anyway.

Hope is knowing things are not great and realizing that it can get better if you make a difference, if you get involved or other people get involved. And there's an activist, Miriam Kakabe, who says hope is a discipline. And I think that's true. Yeah.

Roxy: 00:56:09

And it's something you have to purposefully choose every day. Right. It doesn't just come natural.

Shannon: 00:56:14

You gotta cultivate it.

Roxy: 00:56:15

You gotta cultivate it. Exactly. Gen Z changemakers fired up.

Shannon: 00:56:21

I mean, look, I think what I have learned about the younger generation is that they hate incrementalism. And that's great because they push against the older generation. But also, I think Gen Z needs to learn.

And they will as they get older, because we're all young once and then we get older. But like, the system isn't set up for wholesale overnight change. I wish it was. I would have spent my last decade doing something else.

But when you see. When you get so frustrated that things aren't happening quickly enough, it's easy to give up.

And, you know, this is gonna last a whole lifetime and we have to have patience and stay in the fight. So I'm all about Gen Z taking over. And I just hope, though, that they realize that, you know, this is not gonna get fixed overnight.

Roxy: 00:57:07

Definitely. And last one, midlife.

Shannon: 00:57:10

Fired up or fed up? So fired up. You know, I don't know about you, I wake up every day and I'm like, I don't feel my age at all. No, No, I don't. And I just.

I. I wouldn't go back to being younger for anything. I wouldn't. And it was very turbulent, and it was very difficult, and I learned a lot. I love having wisdom. I love knowing who I am and.

And what my strengths and weaknesses are. And I just. I love being 54.

Roxy: 00:57:39

Yeah, it's great. There's such power with, like, age and life experience. Right?

Shannon: 00:57:43

It's. It's. You shouldn't be. Don't feel.

Roxy: 00:57:45

Don't be scared, guys. It's. It's really not bad. It's great, actually. Right. You know yourself, you know your identity. You don't give a as much, you know.

Shannon: 00:57:54

You know, I. From what I'm seeing online, the facelifts are better than ever. Yes.

Roxy: 00:57:58

Oh, my God.

Shannon: 00:57:58

I mean, like, amazing, amazing, amazing. Like, it's never better to live. If you want a facelift, you've never lived in a better time.

Roxy: 00:58:05

I want what Lindsay is having, what Kris Jenner's having, like, all of it, you know.

So for the ladies listening at home, are there three, like, maybe top things that you would advise them to do to, you know, start living passionately and, you know, really taking hold of their fire?

Shannon: 00:58:25

Obviously get fired up, because I think that the book is a really helpful way to help you figure out, like, where am I right now and where do I want to be? Find your people and.

And start practicing this in real life with those other people and also decide that you're going to live your fullest, truest, most authentic life until the very end. Are you 60 and want to go to medical school? Great.

You know, like, there is no reason that you can't be productive and helpful and share your wisdom forever. Yes.

Roxy: 00:58:56

And there's no age limit. There's no timeline in life. Right. I mean, you could be 95, taking up a whole something new, you know, it's not. There's no timeline, ladies, so let's.

Let's get after it, you know, like, today is the day. Amazing. Thank you so much, Shannon. You're amazing. And I just want to show everybody the book Fired up. Go get it now. It's amazing.

There's so many great tools in here. And Shannon, tell everybody we're the best places to find you.

Shannon: 00:59:26

Go to Fired up book. That's where you can enroll in Firestarter University. You can also find me on all social media. Shannonr Watts.

Roxy: 00:59:33

Yes, definitely follow her. She's amazing.

Shannon: 00:59:35

Thank you so much. Thank you. This was so fun. So fun.

Roxy: 00:59:39

That was Shannon Watts. And what a reminder that one voice backed by purpose can truly change the world.

From building a national movement to reclaiming her own peace, Shannon shows us what's possible when women refuse to stay silent. Her new book, Fired up, is out now, and trust me, you'll want a highlighter in hand.

It's part manifesto, part permission slip, and every woman should read it. If this episode lit something in you, don't keep it to yourself.

Text it to a friend, post it, tag us heconicmidlife and edcarpetroxy and leave a review. Those stars help us reach more iconic women just like you. Follow the show, share it far and wide, and remember, we're not doing Midlife quietly.

We're doing it on our own terms.