Chely Wright's Reinvention: From Country Music Star to Corporate Advocate | The Iconic Midlife
Chely Wright, the groundbreaking country music star, joins us today to share her powerful journey of coming out and reclaiming her narrative. As the first major country artist to publicly embrace her truth, Chely reflects on the fear and courage it took to break barriers in a genre not known for its acceptance. We delve into the significance of owning one’s identity, the impact of faith, and how maturity has shifted her perspective on authenticity. Our conversation touches on the challenges faced during her journey, as well as the importance of supporting those who are still navigating their own paths. Get ready for an inspiring discussion filled with wisdom, laughter, and the refreshing reminder that midlife is about embracing who we truly are and living out loud.
Takeaways:
- Chely Wright's courageous decision to come out as a gay country artist in 2010 was a pivotal moment that challenged societal norms and inspired many, showcasing the power of living authentically.
- The conversation highlights the importance of mental health advocacy, with Chely sharing her personal struggles and how therapy played a crucial role in her journey toward self-acceptance and empowerment.
- Midlife is portrayed not as a crisis, but as an opportunity for growth and reinvention, encouraging listeners to embrace change and pursue their passions without fear of judgment. She also opens up about her career pivot into working as the SVP of Corporate Social Responsibility at ISS, and how her country music career prepared her for this transition.
- Chely's insights on parenting emphasize the value of open communication with children, particularly in fostering environments where kids feel safe to share their feelings and experiences.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Oprah
- Ellen DeGeneres
- Iss
- Vanguard Music
- Hoffman Institute
- ISS
Transcript
I told everyone.
Speaker A:You didn't tell.
Speaker A:I'm taking back the whispers, and I'm owning my truth in a way that I'm going to.
Speaker A:I'm going to go on Oprah, wherever they'll have me.
Speaker A:I'm going to tell this story.
Speaker B:How powerful.
Speaker B:I mean, that was something you had to do.
Speaker B:You had to do it.
Speaker A:What a place of fear that I was kind of navigating.
Speaker A:It breaks my heart for kids that are still doing that.
Speaker A:It breaks my heart for the little me.
Speaker B:And that's one of the beauties, too, of maturing and getting older.
Speaker B:You don't care, like, what people think as much.
Speaker B:Stop you in your tracks like it did.
Speaker A:My faith has been a constant in my life, so I want to separate faith from religion.
Speaker B:That moment could have meant the difference between, you know, somebody caring and not caring.
Speaker B:It's so important.
Speaker A:And I'm good.
Speaker A:I'm good at it.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker A:So you are a good singer?
Speaker B:Yes, lady.
Speaker B:You are.
Speaker B:Today on the Iconic Midlife, I'm joined by a woman who is not only a trailblazer in country music, but a truth teller, a change maker, and an unapologetic force of nature.
Speaker B:Shelley Wright made history as the first major country music star to come out publicly, shattering silence, breaking barriers, and inspiring a generation with her courage.
Speaker B:She's a celebrated singer, songwriter, an advocate for LGBTQ rights and mental health, a devoted mom, and now has become a part of the corporate world and is the walking definition of reinvention done right.
Speaker B:We're diving deep into identity, artistry, motherhood, midlife shifts and what it really means to live authentically, even when the world isn't ready for it.
Speaker B:So grab your headphones and get ready for some serious truths.
Speaker B:And a whole lot of inspiration from the Amazing Shelly writes.
Speaker B:Welcome to the Iconic Midlife.
Speaker B:I'm so thrilled to have you.
Speaker B:How are you doing today?
Speaker A:I'm great.
Speaker A:Number one.
Speaker A:I'm so delighted to be here.
Speaker A:When I learned of your podcast and what you're doing and the conversations you're having intentionally, I got so excited, and I was, like, fangirling.
Speaker A:I've got to be on that podcast, so thank you for allowing me to come on.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Well, absolutely.
Speaker B:And I feel the same about you.
Speaker B:I feel like I'm fangirling, too, so, you know, you had such an amazing career.
Speaker B:People got to know you during all of your country.
Speaker B:You know, music, singing.
Speaker B:You had so many great hits.
Speaker B:But I think the time when everything just totally exploded is when you spoke your truth and you came out of the closet.
Speaker B:And I remember watching that Oprah episode like, you do.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:It was so moving because it was so raw, and it was so real for you.
Speaker B:And for those.
Speaker B: You know, that was in: Speaker B:So that was kind of like pretty pre social media, right?
Speaker B:It had it, like, really gotten so crazy like it is now.
Speaker B:So everybody watched Oprah.
Speaker A:Like, that's true.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:People television, network tv.
Speaker A:And it was back before Oprah had her Oprah network.
Speaker A:It was on network tv, and you really did.
Speaker A:It was kind of appointment viewing with tv.
Speaker A:People watched it.
Speaker B:They really watched it.
Speaker B:And you were also on Ellen DeGeneres.
Speaker B:I mean, so many.
Speaker B:So many great things.
Speaker B:Were you ready for all of the media attention and the spotlight?
Speaker B:Because you obviously had already been in the spotlight with your music career, but that kind of a.
Speaker B:Like, really, like a spot spotlight.
Speaker A:It's a great question, Roxy.
Speaker A:And when you.
Speaker A:When you grow up, from a kid, being a kid in Kansas at age 4, I said, I'm gonna be on the Grand Ole Opry.
Speaker A:I'm gonna be a country music singer.
Speaker A:When you think about those kind of thresholds of achievement, being on the radio, tv, magazines, all of that, newspapers, it is.
Speaker A:I don't think anyone ever goes into it so they can get on TV or so they can be famous, but it is a metric of how well you're doing with your art, your craft, and it also, when you have those media achievements, it means you get to keep doing the job a little bit longer, which is what we artists all look for.
Speaker A:Had you asked me When I was 15, did I ever want to go on TV to talk about the fact that I'm gay, I would have just as soon, you know, jumped off the steep cliff.
Speaker A:That said, when I decided to come out and when I decided to come out the way I came out to answer your question, was I ready for it?
Speaker A:Yeah, I was ready for it, and I knew I needed to do it that way because I had a pretty interesting story to tell.
Speaker A:I often joke that I could have tweeted, hey, y' all, I'm gay.
Speaker A:Or myspaced, hey, y' all, I'm gay.
Speaker A:But I needed to tell the whole story, which was that I am a person of faith that's gay.
Speaker A:I am a kid that grew up loving the Grand Ole Opry and country music.
Speaker A:I'm gay.
Speaker A:I have been supportive of the troops, and I'm the salt of the earth kind of Midwestern roots person, but.
Speaker A:And I'm also gay.
Speaker A:And I always knew it.
Speaker A:And And I'm broken in the many ways that humans are.
Speaker A:But my brokenness is my being gay has nothing to do with my humanity and being broken.
Speaker A:It's just a.
Speaker A:It's a really important part of who I am.
Speaker A:And so I was ready for it, because I walked willingly into that readiness that I'm going to be.
Speaker A:I'm gonna be telling my whole truth anywhere anyone can allow me to do it, because it's an important.
Speaker A:I thought it was an important story to tell.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:You're such a trailblaz at that time.
Speaker B:I feel like you were the first country music singer that really came out and, you know, spoke your truth.
Speaker A:I was the first.
Speaker A:And despite how anyone wanted to frame it afterward in the industry, like, well, we knew.
Speaker A:Well, the fans.
Speaker A:I told everyone.
Speaker A:You didn't tell.
Speaker A:You didn't whisper about me anymore.
Speaker A:I'm taking back the whispers, and I'm owning my truth in a way that I'm going to.
Speaker A:I'm gonna go on Oprah.
Speaker A:I'm going to wherever they'll have me.
Speaker A:I'm going to tell this story that's.
Speaker B:Really powerful because I can imagine also, you know, you are this public person in the country, western music, you know, world.
Speaker B:It hasn't really been known for being accepting of, you know, things like that.
Speaker B:So, I mean, how did you kind of wrestle with that?
Speaker B:Like, was that ever something that held you back, or were you just all in?
Speaker B:Like, you just knew you had to do it?
Speaker A:I wrestled with it for a lot of years.
Speaker A:I mean, I was four when I decided I wanted to be a country music artist.
Speaker A:I was nine when I realized I was gay.
Speaker A:I was 18 when I moved to Nashville.
Speaker A:I was 22 and a half when I signed my first writer's deal, and then my record deal would come shortly after it.
Speaker A:When you are kind of organizing and inventorying your life as a queer, closeted person who wants to make it in country music, you make these big, grand deals.
Speaker A:And my big, grand deal that I made about my life and my deal with God and my maker, whatever, you know, however people look at it, I just thought that's something I could hide.
Speaker A:When you're 18 and 19 and 14, cutting deals with God, it's easy to say, well, I'll just hide that.
Speaker A:And then life happens, and then you.
Speaker A:You begin to understand how important companionship and authenticity are.
Speaker A:And so in my 20s and 30s, I just thought, this is something I have to take to my grave.
Speaker A:And then by the time I realized my grave might come much sooner if I don't.
Speaker A:If I don't deal with who I am.
Speaker A:And I was also very proud of who I am as a person.
Speaker A:Being gay wasn't a point of shame for me.
Speaker A:It was early on.
Speaker A:But when I realized, I don't think I'm going to hell for this.
Speaker A:I think I'm exactly as God made me.
Speaker A:It really.
Speaker A:It was a.
Speaker A:It was really hard for me to act shameful about who I am when I'm not ashamed of who I am.
Speaker A:And so I did wrestle with it until the day I nearly ended my life and the morning after I didn't end my life.
Speaker A:It was like, I'm either going to not survive the closet at the hand of my.
Speaker A:I had a gun that my parents had given me for safety.
Speaker A:So I'm either going to pull the trigger and I say that knowing that that's a big thing to say, or I'm going to come out.
Speaker A:And not only am I going to come out, I'm going to come out well.
Speaker A:And that began my just figuring out, how do I unravel this explicit implicit truth, a lie essentially, that I told the world?
Speaker A:How do I unravel that in a way that has integrity, authenticity, productivity?
Speaker A:How do I use my public capital to do some good and free myself of this just albatross that I'd tied around myself?
Speaker B:Did you have any regrets from that moment in time or from that time period when, you know, everything was kind of coming out?
Speaker A:It's a great question.
Speaker A:The way I came out was criticized in certain circles and corners.
Speaker A:No, I got a lot of support and a lot of, oh, my gosh, way to go.
Speaker A:That was incredible.
Speaker A:You helped me or you helped my mom see this differently or.
Speaker A:But there were criticisms about how I came out, including, but not limited to she did it for the money.
Speaker A:I'm like, what money?
Speaker A:Like, what are you people.
Speaker B:What are you talking about?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:If it was such a.
Speaker A:Such a lucrative decision, all the queer country artists before me would have come out.
Speaker A:Um, anyway, it's kind of funny that anyone would say that, but including, you know, what was.
Speaker A:Seemed too coordinated.
Speaker A:Well, I'm a coordinated.
Speaker A:I'm a strategic person.
Speaker A:I had a paper route when I was a kid.
Speaker A:I was strategic about my paper route.
Speaker A:I was strategic about how I did gigs when I was in high school with my band.
Speaker A:I was strategic about getting to Nashville and realizing I'm not the best country singer in a hundred mile radius.
Speaker A:I was in Kansas.
Speaker A:But when I got to Nashville, everybody was good.
Speaker A:And my strategy hat went on.
Speaker A:And I was like, okay, I won't be outworked.
Speaker A:I might be.
Speaker A:There may be better singers, better songwriters, but I'm gonna learn the business.
Speaker A:I'm going to learn my craft, get better at my craft, and I'm gonna put on that strategy hat, and I'm gonna find a way to get this done.
Speaker A:And I did.
Speaker A:So just kind of in keeping with the way that I think and the way that I was raised was plan your work and work your plan, and that included how I came out.
Speaker A:There was a very strategic way to tell my story and to affect positive change for people like me and for people who love people like me.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And what would you say to somebody who is on their own coming out journey?
Speaker B:Maybe they're not out yet, but they want to come out to their family, their friends, you know, their loved ones.
Speaker B:What do you say to them if they still feel like they're being, you know, they're held back a bit?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm lucky since I came out to have been a person that people talk to about this, whether they be other publicly known people or people who come to my shows and wait till afterward to talk to me and share their story or write to me.
Speaker A:And I feel very honored to have people ask me, what is your advice on coming out?
Speaker A:My North Star is do not come out until you feel safe and able.
Speaker A:And those criteria are very different for a lot of.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a sliding scale for a lot of different people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So if you're living in the rural south or, you know, the rural Northeast, and anywhere an hour outside of a major metropolitan area, you're in the country.
Speaker A:And so I do not say, yeah, just get a gay pride flag and run down the middle of Main Street.
Speaker A:That does not meet the criteria of safe and able.
Speaker A:Those of us with resources, which is a privilege.
Speaker A:A lot of us moved out of our small towns.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But moving out of your small town requires resources and opportunities.
Speaker A:So don't come out until you've thought it through and you feel safe and able.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I will say that be.
Speaker A:Be mindful about who your people are in terms of who you think might be an ally.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's.
Speaker A:Again, I wouldn't recommend to most people to go to their Twitter, their MySpace, and many people do many people declare it on National Coming Out Day.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There are days that are meant to create a framework and a kind of let's jump together kind of movement.
Speaker A:And I love.
Speaker A:I love those movements.
Speaker A:But I often wonder about The UN Risks of telling people it's coming out day throw caution to the wind.
Speaker A:Because in a lot of places in America and around the world, coming out can mean that you lose your housing, it can mean that you are excommunicated from your church, it can mean that your parents kick you out of the house.
Speaker A:It can mean that you have a hard time showing up at work and at school.
Speaker A:So I think a measured, strategic, careful approach is important for all.
Speaker A:That's my best advice.
Speaker B:That's the best advice.
Speaker B:That's actually great advice.
Speaker B:Be prepared and be ready like before, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:How much did you rely on your faith during that time?
Speaker B:Was that just.
Speaker B:And is that something that's still constant in your life?
Speaker A:I'm really lucky, Roxy, in that my faith has been a constant in my life.
Speaker A:So I want to separate faith from religion.
Speaker A:So I grew up, you know, Christian, and we went to church on Wednesday night and Sunday morning and Sunday night and everyone did in my small farm town community in Kansas.
Speaker A:And for a lot of years, once I realized that my faith was important to me, before I realized I was gay, I was baptized before I realized I was gay.
Speaker A:And then once I realized I was gay, it's almost as if those messages about people like that, the, you know, the homosexuals and what was being talked about in the sermons, it's almost like every sermon was about that, and I'm sure it was because I noticed it, I saw it, I received those kind of teachings in a really big outsized way because I was so scared that I was that person, which I was.
Speaker A:And so I spent a good deal from age 9 to, you know, probably 18, 17, thinking, being sure that I was going to hell.
Speaker A:So every day of my.
Speaker A:From age 9 until I was maybe 17 or 18, I said a prayer every single day of my life, multiple times a day.
Speaker A:Dear God, I promise to be a good person.
Speaker A:I promise to not lie, cheat, steal.
Speaker A:I promise to be a good person.
Speaker A:Please just take it away.
Speaker A:In your name I pray.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker A:And when I think back to the 9 year old, 10 year old, 11 year old me spending the time and the effort to give time, God time to change me and to pray that prayer out loud.
Speaker A:And I'd go out to the middle of a cornfield and say it out loud because it wasn't working in my.
Speaker A:I'd say it quietly and I was like, well, I'm not saying it often enough.
Speaker A:Maybe I need to say it out loud.
Speaker A:I would go find places where I could say it.
Speaker A:And for you know, I have a 12 year old boy.
Speaker A:There'll be 12 soon.
Speaker A:And when I think about what, what I would want from my children in their childhood, what a wasted effort and what a, what a place of fear that I was kind of navigating, it breaks my heart for kids that are still doing that.
Speaker A:It breaks my heart for the little me.
Speaker A:But when I realized, wait a minute, God made me exactly as I am, I felt like it was so weird, this kind of bifurcated thing, this faith and then the religion piece.
Speaker A:I knew in my heart of hearts that the God that made me, that gave me music, that allowed me to sit down at a piano and hear songs and just be able to play them.
Speaker A:I knew that came from somewhere.
Speaker A:And so I couldn't.
Speaker A:It became more and more difficult to reconcile that God was finding me in favor in so many ways.
Speaker A:I just felt like God shined favor on me and then that didn't make sense that I would also be damned to, you know, eternal damnation.
Speaker A:I just, at some point, 17 or 18, I was like, I'm okay.
Speaker A:I'm not in spiritual jeopardy.
Speaker A:But I knew I was in social jeopardy, and I knew I was in country music jeopardy.
Speaker A:I knew no one had ever been.
Speaker A:Had acknowledged being gay in country music.
Speaker A:And when I got to Nashville, I just doubled down on that secret and I'm like, well, if anyone's ever gonna come out, it's not gonna be me.
Speaker A:And it would be 20 some years later, it would be me.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:That said, how powerful.
Speaker B:I mean, it was something you had to do.
Speaker B:You had to do it.
Speaker A:I had to.
Speaker A:Well, I was not going to survive it if I didn't.
Speaker A:And I also knew that I'd been a good steward of my life.
Speaker A:And I knew that, you know, the things that people said about gay people, especially in faith communities, well, they're, they're sick and they're broken and they're addicts and they're this and they're that.
Speaker A:And someone, you know, traumatized them in their childhood.
Speaker A:And none of that was true for me.
Speaker A:And I knew that that was.
Speaker A:I had a really unique capital and I had been a good steward of my life.
Speaker A:And how could anyone argue with the life I'd lived again?
Speaker A:I'm, you know, I'm just a farm girl from Kansas that loves the Opry.
Speaker A:And I didn't break rules, and I was a straight A student.
Speaker A:I followed all the rules.
Speaker A:And I don't drink, I don't smoke.
Speaker A:You know, I never did drugs.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:How could Anyone argue with what I had to offer about all of those things and then saying, oh, one more thing, one more card I want to lay on the table for you to ponder.
Speaker A:Do with it what you will, but I'm a gay person.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker B:You know, I think in midlife too.
Speaker B:And tell me if you've been, you know, kind of noticing this, but I think a lot of women are really, you know, finding out who they are and really speaking their truths as well.
Speaker B:And there is a kind of a buzzy phrase that's called late in life lesbian.
Speaker B:And so it's been kind of going around, right.
Speaker B:Perhaps maybe a woman was married to a man or she had dated men before.
Speaker B:Whatever the story is, I just want to know what you think about that.
Speaker B:And is that something that you're seeing as well?
Speaker B:And just what, what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So shortly after I came out, I recall I had the TV on and there was a guy named Dr.
Speaker A:Drew, forgotten his last name, but he had a network like talk show.
Speaker A:And he was talking about late in life lesbians.
Speaker A:And he was making this kind of dramatic causation like correlation between menopause and.
Speaker A:It must be something that happens during menopause.
Speaker A:I just, I.
Speaker A:It was so crazy to me.
Speaker A:It's not that menopause, that's not it.
Speaker A:It's that at that time and again, Meredith Baxter Bernie had just come out, she and I came out around the same time.
Speaker A:And I have met thousands of late in life lesbians, late in life gay men.
Speaker A:It's not that that they turned gay late in life, it's that they decided, I feel safer.
Speaker A:I've put him putting a premium on my happiness.
Speaker A:And I almost became, I almost married men.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It would have been, I, it could have easily happened.
Speaker A:And the reasons that people get women and men make decisions to even if they're gay to marry a man or marry, marry someone of the opposite sex is because you don't think you're ever going to get to be, to be that authentic person.
Speaker A:So what do you, do you say, you know, what if I'm going to have to live this traditional life with which society expects me to, I'm going to pick a partner that I can, that I like, that my values are aligned.
Speaker A:And sometimes their partner knows that they're gay.
Speaker A:Sometimes it's a gay man marrying a gay woman and they say, let's partner up and let's live a life together, a lot of that.
Speaker A:And then sometimes it's a woman marrying A man that she's like, well, I want to have a family, and I don't think I can have a family as a gay person.
Speaker A:And I really love this man, and I love him as much as I can.
Speaker A:I'm not really wired to love him, you know, in an intimate way.
Speaker A:But do my values align and do I want to build a family?
Speaker A:And he's a good person.
Speaker A:Let's do that.
Speaker A:So it's not that people turn gay late in their lives.
Speaker A:It's that the aperture of what life can be and that there are more gay people who have raised their hand and said, hey, I'm gay.
Speaker A:It's that if you see it and there's representation in the world, you begin to think maybe I too could have that.
Speaker A:So the late in life lesbian.
Speaker A:And again, there's no rule that holds for everyone.
Speaker A:It's not a monolith.
Speaker A:But there's absolutely.
Speaker A:I think 99% of the people who become late in life lesbians always, they probably fell in love with their best friend when, when they were 20 or the mom of their kid's best friend and probably were like, am I gay or what's going on here?
Speaker A:Late in life lesbian to me just means they just got tired of living their life with the expectations and social norms that have been put on all of us.
Speaker A:And at some point, it's like late in life women who decide, I'm going to divorce this guy after 30 years because he's an asshole.
Speaker A:It's the same bucket of people saying, no more.
Speaker A:I'm going to live for me now.
Speaker A:And some of them are late in life get divorced women because they're sick of the husband and she's been doing all the work for 30 years or she's not loved him for 20 years.
Speaker A:And that's the same bucket of people of women that say, I'm just going to live my life.
Speaker A:And I happen to.
Speaker A:I know I love women and I'm going to date women or I'm gonna.
Speaker B:Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Are you a straight person?
Speaker B:So I am a straight person.
Speaker B:Married, you know, 20 years actually this past week.
Speaker B:My husband.
Speaker A:Congratulations.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:You know, it's always a roller coaster, though.
Speaker B:It's like very, you know, up and down.
Speaker A:Marriage is like a.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker A:I talk about faith.
Speaker A:It's a faith practice.
Speaker A:Marriage is a practice as well.
Speaker A:And it's good work.
Speaker A:And if you're, if you're with, you know, if you're doing the work with the person you want to, it's really gratifying.
Speaker A:Congratulations to you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:And you too, because you've been with your wife for, is it 15, 15.
Speaker B:No, 14 years now.
Speaker A:It's crazy.
Speaker B:How do you guys navigate this crazy thing called marriage, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah, it is a.
Speaker A:Again, my North Star is.
Speaker A:Is this the person I want to be doing the work with?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And my answer is this is, this is good work with.
Speaker A:I love Lauren and she's so funny and she's.
Speaker A:And we've, we had preemie twins and we've gone through a lot together and at the end of the day, she's the one I want to call.
Speaker A:She's my first call, my last call of the day.
Speaker A:And that's good stuff.
Speaker A:And, and, and you know, when you study the arc of marriage, my grandparents were married 50 plus years and lots of long marriages in my, in our kind of ecosystem of humans.
Speaker A:And when you really dig in and talk to people who've been married 60, 50 years, there's not a single one of them that haven't said, oh, it was rocky, it was hard and I just, I like doing the work.
Speaker B:It is, you're, you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:There is work.
Speaker B:And I heard this piece of marriage advice.
Speaker B:It said, just don't want to get divorced at the same time.
Speaker B:Oh my God, it's been times.
Speaker A:Right, right, right.
Speaker A:Someone at every juncture, we need at least one of the people saying, we're in this baby.
Speaker A:Let's, you know, quitting.
Speaker A:I'm not much of a quitter.
Speaker B:It's one of those things too.
Speaker B:Like you're saying if you find that right person, you can weather the storms, you know, and it's just, it is putting in the work.
Speaker B:But when you guys feel a little bit off kilter or there's like issues going, what brings you back to each other?
Speaker B:Laughter okay.
Speaker A:What we believe to be, you know, our family with our identical twin boys, George and Everett.
Speaker A:When I think about the 90 year old me.
Speaker A:Lauren's in that.
Speaker A:Lauren's still in my, that circle and in the past, you know, five, six, definitely Covid.
Speaker A:Inspired some thinking for me and that my goal is to just think about the outcome and the my last day, it may sound macabre and maybe it's the songwriter in me, but I think about what I want my last day to look like and then I just reverse engineer into that.
Speaker A:Oh, I have about 10,000 sunrises left.
Speaker B:Wait, is this, has this been calculated?
Speaker B:Is it really 10,000?
Speaker A:That's my math, right?
Speaker A:If I'm, you know, live to be late 80s or whatever, I'm 54.
Speaker A:So I've got, give or take, 10,000 sunrises left.
Speaker A:And at the end of the whole whatever this is, there is only one question to be answered.
Speaker A:And the question to be answered will be whether it's me kind of out of body, looking at myself or my creator.
Speaker A:There will be one answer, one question.
Speaker A:And the question is, what did you do?
Speaker A:What did you do?
Speaker A:And everything I do here and in my life, I'm reverse engineering into what I want that moment to look like.
Speaker A:And maybe I'm really think a lot about this lately because my dad died a little over a year ago and we were all there.
Speaker A:And the pilgrimage that people made in my dad's final few days at the VA hospital there in Kansas City, it was just a steady stream of just people coming to tell him what he did for them, what he meant for them.
Speaker A:And I knew, I knew my dad very well and I knew he had had a big impact on a lot of people.
Speaker A:But the people I didn't know, that he made a huge, pivotal, transformative difference in their lives by showing up, by being there sometimes, you know, give him, giving them one of his cars or a truck or moving them, taking his truck and saying, let's, let's get you moved.
Speaker A:Or money or his resources, his time.
Speaker A:He didn't have a lot of money, but he gave.
Speaker A:Literally, you hear about a person who would give the shirt on off their back.
Speaker A:I literally met a guy that said, your dad gave me his shirt.
Speaker B:Like, literally, literally.
Speaker A:They were going to like some job interview.
Speaker A:And my dad was like, you can't wear that.
Speaker A:Took off his button down, his pearl snap cowboy button down, and gave them his shirt.
Speaker A:And he said, and I got the job.
Speaker A:And I felt really good going in.
Speaker A:I felt like I was.
Speaker A:I showed up, right?
Speaker A:And I had your dad's shirt on, like, so what does my last day look like?
Speaker A:And what is that question?
Speaker A:And what is that answer to that question?
Speaker A:What did you do?
Speaker A:I'm doing.
Speaker A:I'm doing it.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:That's absolutely amazing.
Speaker B:And what do you believe to be after this, after this life?
Speaker B:What does it look like on the other side?
Speaker A:Great question.
Speaker A:I think it doesn't look anything like what we think it looks like.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker A:I do not believe in hell.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:I do not.
Speaker A:I believe there's something, things somewhere.
Speaker A:I'm not convinced that it's not coming back as an animal.
Speaker A:And again, I get asked to leave The Christian table a lot, especially by evangelicals.
Speaker A:Because what I'm saying, coming back as a bird or a dog or another person is not aligned with the Christian faith.
Speaker A:But I believe that faiths around the world that.
Speaker A:Look, I've been around the world and I've seen faiths, different based practice very beautifully and for much longer than Christianity.
Speaker A:And I think there is something.
Speaker A:I don't think my energy and my spirit will go nowhere.
Speaker A:I think there's something, but I don't, I don't think there aren't gold, golden sidewalks, if you ask me.
Speaker A:There is not a heaven.
Speaker A:It's not up.
Speaker A:I don't, I.
Speaker A:I think it may be just a continuum of spirit and energy.
Speaker A:And I don't spend a lot of time thinking about salvation and the afterlife.
Speaker A:One of my spiritual advisors said, shelley, you're the kind of person that your faith is.
Speaker A:He gave me a notion that I really believe in.
Speaker A:I think faith doesn't.
Speaker A:It's not about, oh, I hope I don't screw up so badly here that I get to go to heaven.
Speaker A:It's not that my faith makes me better today on, what is it, Friday.
Speaker A:My faith makes me better today.
Speaker A:My faith will make me have a better tomorrow, Saturday and a better Sunday.
Speaker A:And so I don't look at it like a prize that we win.
Speaker A:It's right now the prize.
Speaker B:We're living it.
Speaker A:We're living it.
Speaker B:And that's the problem.
Speaker B:People don't.
Speaker B:Are not in the present.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:And rightfully so.
Speaker B:I mean, I understand why, you know, people through trauma or whatever the circumstances are, live in the past sometimes or, you know, there's anxiety, they're thinking about the future.
Speaker B:But it's such a golden moment that we're living right now.
Speaker A:Right, Right now.
Speaker A:Right now.
Speaker A:And the days where I struggle with faith, you know, when someone takes a gun and goes into a kindergarten and murders, you know, 30 kindergartners, I struggle with my faith in those moments.
Speaker A:Those are the moments that I think none of it's real.
Speaker A:There's just no way a maker of us, a creator of us, would allow that kind of trauma and violence and pain.
Speaker A:When I think about these people who have lost their children, I struggle with faith in those moments.
Speaker A:But that's why it's called a faith practice.
Speaker A:Got to get.
Speaker A:For me, for me, it just makes me.
Speaker A:It gives me comfort.
Speaker A:And it may be all just a pipe dream.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker A:I don't care what other people think.
Speaker A:I Know that today I'm living in the moment.
Speaker A:And my faith makes me able to find joy, allow joy and grief and anxieties and regrets and all of that.
Speaker A:It just somehow is kind of the thing that pulls it all together and makes it make sense.
Speaker B:And that's one of the beauties too of maturing and getting older is you don't care like what people think as much it's not.
Speaker B:So it doesn't stop you in your tracks like it did when, you know, in 25 and 30.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:And you can kind of move forward and move just being, living in peace, you know, and being reassured that I don't give a fuck, you know?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Why, you know, why not?
Speaker A:You don't get there.
Speaker A:Like again, I'm 54 and what a great place to be in life.
Speaker A:Because it's not that I don't care what people think of me.
Speaker A:I'm wired to, like, I have a concern for people.
Speaker A:If someone says I hate her, like that's not mine.
Speaker A:I don't know, it's none of my business what they think of me, but when I check into a hotel or talk to the Uber driver, I care that when I get out of their car, they feel that the experience with that person was one that didn't drain them.
Speaker A:That was a positive interaction.
Speaker A:So to that extent I care that people think she's, she was nice, that was a nice person.
Speaker A:But losing, losing time and energy around, like, do people like me?
Speaker A:After having had a career for so long that was kind of predicated on fans liking you and believing in you, I can't do that was exhausting.
Speaker A:And if someone decides they don't like me, that's okay.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I would be sure that they don't know me.
Speaker A:I'm a likable person.
Speaker A:I like myself.
Speaker A:The people who are in my life, they like me.
Speaker A:I make them laugh, I show up for them, they show up for me.
Speaker A:That's all I need.
Speaker B:That's the evolution too.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And you've been so open about mental health.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So my nearly ending my life, there is a mental health component to that?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:1.
Speaker A:My sister in law is a psychologist and I asked her about that, like, what did that microcosm of that really dark moment look like?
Speaker A:And she said, you know, no one arrives in that moment without having a mental health crisis.
Speaker A:Which I definitely had.
Speaker A:It was, I never had a moment like that before then or after then.
Speaker A:And so it was definitely I had to pay close attention to.
Speaker A:I'm not in a Good place.
Speaker A:If I'm actually thinking that the only move I've got is to put a 9 millimeter gun in my mouth and pull the trigger.
Speaker A:And by the way, I had a successful life.
Speaker A:I had resources, I had a beautiful home, you know, friends, no one really knew me.
Speaker A:Family, they didn't really know all of me.
Speaker A:But I have people.
Speaker A:If I could find myself ready to pull that trigger, a lot of people could, Right?
Speaker A:And so it wasn't that I was destitute, didn't have a job, you know, I had a good life and.
Speaker A:And I still contemplated pulling that trigger.
Speaker A:And so there was a mental health crisis in that moment.
Speaker A:Something was not right.
Speaker A:But the next morning, when I decided, when I realized I've either got to.
Speaker A:I'm either going to die here in this house or I'm going to come out when I tell you my life got magical from that moment.
Speaker A:I'm not exaggerating.
Speaker A:The minute I realized you're going to come out, it wasn't like, good.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, shit, I'm going to come out.
Speaker A:What does that look like?
Speaker A:How do I do that?
Speaker A:That seemed hard and complicated, but I put my strategy hat on.
Speaker A:But everything else felt magical.
Speaker A:And when I say that, it's that I took this one step, I'm going to come out.
Speaker A:And this road kind of opened up in front of me, including the people who would help me come out.
Speaker A:Well, including the right publicist, the right manager, the right.
Speaker A:I had finished a record and I was like, no one, no label in Nashville is going to put this out.
Speaker A:I came out to LA and sat down with Kevin Welk of Vanguard Music, and he had already said he wanted the record, he liked the record.
Speaker A:And I came out here and I said, so grateful you like the record.
Speaker A:Sat in a conference room with his team and someone, you know, that represented me.
Speaker A:And I said, I'm really glad you like the record, but I do have to give you some news.
Speaker A:I'm gay and I'm going to come out of the closet.
Speaker A:And I wanted to make sure he had the opportunity to save.
Speaker A:Well, that's not going to work.
Speaker A:That's going to be too hard a record to put out.
Speaker A:And he looked around at his team and he said, okay.
Speaker A:He said, I'll tell you.
Speaker A:And he said, when?
Speaker A:I said, I don't know yet.
Speaker A:I'm planning how to come out well.
Speaker A:And we talked through it and I told him what I was thinking.
Speaker A:He said, okay, we will put out your record when you are ready to plan and in record label worlds, they don't do that.
Speaker A:They plan, like, years in advance for records.
Speaker A:And if you miss your window that they've allotted for you, sorry, we can't put your record out because the James Taylor record is coming out, because the X person, whatever record is coming out.
Speaker A:And he gave me such a gift in that moment.
Speaker A:He said, when you're ready to put this record out, we're with you.
Speaker A:We will put it out when you're ready.
Speaker A:And then it would be, you know, another two and a half years.
Speaker A:And it came out the day I came out.
Speaker B:It's like all the signs were pointing to you taking the right path, you know?
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Everything got easy, like, relatively easy.
Speaker A:And that, to me, when things start is when that flywheel of people and activity and things happening start to happen.
Speaker A:That's when you know, okay, I'm doing the right thing.
Speaker A:I'm on the right path.
Speaker B:The lights are green, right?
Speaker A:The lights are green.
Speaker B:And, you know, you mentioned, by all appearances, you know, you look like you had everything together.
Speaker B:You know, you've got this successful career, you live in a beautiful house, you're a celebrity.
Speaker B:I mean, all these trappings that people see as success, but little did the outside world know that you had that struggle.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So how do we get better?
Speaker B:Checking in on the strong ones or the ones to appear to have it all?
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:It's a great question.
Speaker A:We do have to get better, Right.
Speaker A:We are not very good at it.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, the.
Speaker A:The people who have had either an isolated mental health issue like I had, or a protracted kind of lifelong mental health issue, I think those people raising their hands and sharing their stories and normalizing what that looks like is really the greatest gift people can give.
Speaker A:I don't know if you know who Mark.
Speaker A:I think his name is Duplass.
Speaker B:Oh, yes, absolutely.
Speaker A:Great actor.
Speaker A:Yeah, great actor.
Speaker A:So, you know, he is just such a talented guy.
Speaker A:He does production as well, writes and acts filmmaker.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:I don't know when he began sharing his mental health story, but I follow him on Instagram and he is front and center about sharing what it looks like, medications, the journey, and like, guys, I'm not.
Speaker A:I'm not doing great today.
Speaker A:Not in a great place.
Speaker A:And I think the courage to use your public capital to share your story like that when you, you know, when you can around mental health is literally saving and changing lives.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And so when Covid happened, you know, my peers in music, all of my other touring musician Friends.
Speaker A:I, I knew it was scary for all of us.
Speaker A:And what I can control, what I can do is control my outreach to others.
Speaker A:So I just kind of each day I made it a point to reach out to several of people in my peer group that I knew had essentially lost their jobs.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:We all lost our jobs at the same time with no problem.
Speaker A:And we're gig workers, right?
Speaker A:We don't get a corporate check and we don't have a 401k and we.
Speaker A:So not only was the world shutting down, we'd lost our jobs, we'd lost our income.
Speaker A:Many of us have employees.
Speaker A:We were unable to care for our employees.
Speaker A:So I made it a practice.
Speaker A:Just like a few people a day just say, you know, what's your number?
Speaker A:Meaning where 10 being great, one being, you know, on the verge of something really dark.
Speaker A:What's your number?
Speaker A:And this kind of shorthand language.
Speaker A:Oftentimes I'd get back just a number.
Speaker A:They wouldn't go into anything every, you know, oddly we were all busy with kids and we were in isolation, but there was a lot going on and sometimes I would just get back a six, what's your number?
Speaker A:And be like I'm in an eight today.
Speaker A:Exo heart.
Speaker A:I loved that new practice for me and I think if we could all just check in with one another in that way, in a new way and it feels counterintuitive, it feels nosy, it feels sometimes ham handed but.
Speaker A:And I do it with my colleagues.
Speaker A:What's your number?
Speaker A:So I think that's a kind of a new best practices that we can all too.
Speaker B:That's really nice because that moment could have been the meant the difference between you know, somebody caring and not caring.
Speaker B:Like for them, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's so important.
Speaker A:It's, it's important.
Speaker A:And I'm curious, what are your interventions?
Speaker A:What do you, what have you learned from the conversations you've been having with people and about how to check in?
Speaker B:You know, I think very much like you were, what you were saying is the outreach is so important because I think now where we are in this world, you know, it's almost like looked down upon to reach your phone, you know, give somebody a call.
Speaker B:It's almost intrusive like you're saying, right.
Speaker A:I, I don't call anyone.
Speaker A:That's too much.
Speaker A:That's a bridge too far.
Speaker B:You have a text.
Speaker A:I hardly ever call anybody anyway.
Speaker A:Go on.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I know.
Speaker B: ause honestly, I mean used to: Speaker B:You know, it's a whole, a whole thing.
Speaker B:But I would say definitely text.
Speaker B:I mean, DM if you have to, you know, however you can get across to that person.
Speaker B:And I think too spending quality time with people without looking at the phone, you know, without, you know, interruptions, just even if it's a 10, 15, 20 minutes a day, you know, that, that is so important.
Speaker B:I know we're both parents as well, and that is one of the things that I try to, especially with my daughter, is give her, her, you know, phone free 20 minutes of me a day where it's just, you know, we're talking.
Speaker B:We could even be in the car driving, whatever that is.
Speaker A:You know, it sounds easy to do that 20 minutes without the devices, but it's super valuable and the data tells us that with our kids.
Speaker A:Talking to our kids in the car is a really productive way to have conversations with kids because they share differently in a car because it feels less pressurized and there's not the icon.
Speaker A:We're not looking at them.
Speaker A:You know, sometimes may feel judged taking your kid and saying, come run an errand with me and talking to them.
Speaker A:My kids give it all up in the car.
Speaker B:Do they share?
Speaker A:And they, they, they will ask questions that, that are fascinating and interesting and hilarious, but get them in the car.
Speaker A:That's the good time to talk.
Speaker B:That's good.
Speaker B:What other great parenting advice have you learned along the way that you've really implemented in your own home?
Speaker A:So our kids developed some anxieties during, during COVID for good reason.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Typically when think scary things go on in the world, we could say, trust me, everything's okay.
Speaker A:We didn't know that everything was okay.
Speaker A:And so although we were comforting them, but we didn't, we couldn't make any, any promises about anything.
Speaker A:A couple of nannies, you know, in our kids friendship circle, like died during COVID I mean we lived in New York a few blocks from a hospital.
Speaker A:There were sight, you know, it was a scary time to be in New York.
Speaker A:And they developed, they began having bad dreams.
Speaker A:And, and so in a kind of a, what we think my wife and I think was kind of a genius parenting moment, they were afraid to go to bed one night.
Speaker A:And, and I said, they said one of them, I think it was George, I'm gonna have a bad dream.
Speaker A:And I said, oh, hold on, Lauren and I went to our bathroom and came back With a little like lotion that we had.
Speaker A:And I said, we just got this, like, put some of this on it, just a dot right here and rub it in.
Speaker A:And he said, what is it?
Speaker A:And I said, it's good dream cream.
Speaker A:And it's just like, it keeps the dreams, the bad dreams away.
Speaker A:It helps at least.
Speaker A:No promises, but it helps.
Speaker A:And we began that routine that every night they would put on good dream cream.
Speaker A:They still ask for it.
Speaker A:And you know, my wife and I ended up, you know, we, we launched a product, oddly enough, called Good Dream Cream.
Speaker A:And people are finding.
Speaker A:And it smells good for adults too.
Speaker A:But just getting into those practices of comfort and routine, the bedtime and the wake up time routines are really important.
Speaker A:And so I would get into bed with the boys and do something I called tag team, which means one of them starts a story, just one line, and then the next boy adds the next line of the story, and then I do.
Speaker A:And we got into the practice of creating, collaborating a nighttime story together.
Speaker A:And often, yes, it was about poop and chocolate candy and, you know, video games.
Speaker A:But it was something we did together and they could count on it.
Speaker A:It was like, kind of like a touchstone throughout the day.
Speaker A:So I think routine.
Speaker A:Routine.
Speaker A:And the routine you've developed with your daughter, you have a routine of she gets all of you for 20 minutes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And I think routines for grownups are important too.
Speaker A:It is self soothing.
Speaker A:And, you know, you go to bed before I go to bed every night I put lotion on my feet.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And it's, it's kind of Pavlovian and I'm very softy, but it's Pavlovian.
Speaker A:If you, if I put lotion on my feet, even like midday, if I were to do it, kind of get a little sleepy.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Routine.
Speaker A:Routine is everything.
Speaker B:That's a good, that's good on the spot thinking too.
Speaker B:You're a good dream cream.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker A:And they believed it.
Speaker A:And now they know.
Speaker A:They're like, you guys made that up.
Speaker A:And we're like, of course we did.
Speaker A:But they still like their good dream cream.
Speaker A:And the olfactory, our olfactory systems, our scent of smell is the most powerful.
Speaker A:So like, do you ever.
Speaker A:You smell someone that has a perfume that your mom used to wear, you smell it and you're like, you're 15 again.
Speaker A:It's a really powerful sense.
Speaker A:And so if you can trigger that, and that's what the good dream cream does.
Speaker A:It just makes you, it takes you back to that spot of calm where your mom is snuggling you for bed and so nice.
Speaker A:It's a powerful.
Speaker B:It's comforting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, you mentioned launching your business and you've also stepped into the corporate world.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh, you are busy, busy be now I, you know, I've always.
Speaker A:Got again I had paper route in first grade.
Speaker A:I am, I am the quintessential kind of hustler entrepreneur.
Speaker A:And having grown up with my parents, as parents they were, we didn't have much but what we did, what, what we watched them do, they did it with measure and care and they put a premium on quality.
Speaker A:Whatever you do, do it well.
Speaker A:And they would say don't half ass it.
Speaker A:Don't half ass anything.
Speaker A:So whatever you do, be the best at it and do it well.
Speaker A: n I came out of the closet in: Speaker A:What began as like sharing my story.
Speaker A:But then I quickly saw that it's culture work.
Speaker A:It was early D and I work what would go on to become called dei.
Speaker A:But I began to see the power of storytelling and working in corporate spaces.
Speaker A:And I loved it so much.
Speaker A:And I actually had more of that work than I wanted to do.
Speaker A:But I kind of kept it at 30% of my time.
Speaker A:And the other 70 was touring, writing and making records.
Speaker A:So when Covid hit, all of my existing clients were reaching out like can we do a virtual event?
Speaker A:And no longer did I have to get on a plane and go be in Des Moines or Philadelphia for three days.
Speaker A:I could do corporate work through virtual work.
Speaker A:And it really opened up the potential to do that work.
Speaker A:And it was the time when George Floyd had and murdered Breonna Taylor.
Speaker A:There were and it was a pandemic and people were looking for connectivity and safe spaces to connect.
Speaker A:So that work kind of all of my clients were like, can you do?
Speaker A: ID and in the summer of COVID: Speaker A:And they I would eventually after a few months of doing that, they asked me to come on full time.
Speaker A:So I did that for four plus years.
Speaker A:And I'm still on their board advisor to their board.
Speaker A:But I've since pivoted to a company called iss.
Speaker A:And we are a global facilities management firm.
Speaker A:And what we do is bring the built environment to life.
Speaker A:Corporate dining, janitorial, technical services, vertical transportation, which means ESCALATORS and elevators.
Speaker A:And so we do all of the things that bring the built environment to Life.
Speaker A:We have 325,000 placemakers around the globe.
Speaker A:We're the oldest, biggest janitorial company in the world.
Speaker A:And our people who go to work every day are people who punch a time clock and do the really honorable work that is often unnoticed.
Speaker A:And what's excited me about coming in, the reason I came into this role is that I get to make sure that we are seeing them, providing, hearing them, making sure that we are impacting their livelihoods and their families livelihoods in a positive way and most importantly, impacting the communities where they come from.
Speaker A:And so I get to make sure that we are doing good.
Speaker A:Our company, historically in its DNA, is values minded.
Speaker A:We were doing belonging and inclusion work before anyone was talking about it.
Speaker A:And so I It's a joy, it's a real honor and a pleasure to get to do good by our people and grow the business in ways that reflect our values and really bring to life the stories of our placemakers.
Speaker B:How did your previous career in country music, singing and songwriting prepare you for this position?
Speaker A:Now it's a great question.
Speaker A:And I think, you know, there was a headline recently when my new role was announced and the headline, A friend of mine, a colleague, snapshot it and sent it to me and she said the headline, meh.
Speaker A:And it was queer country music singer pivots to the C suite in corporate.
Speaker A:In a corporate space.
Speaker A:And she was like, the headline, meh.
Speaker A:And I said, yeah, meh.
Speaker A:I said, but also I am the only person on the planet about whom that headline can be written.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That is a good point.
Speaker B:That is true, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, that's really cool, actually.
Speaker A:So when we think of when I think about what I did as when I did, you know, in the music business, if you.
Speaker A:The music is important, very important.
Speaker A:And I'm good, I'm good at it.
Speaker A:You are a good singer.
Speaker B:Yes, lady, you are.
Speaker A:And I think that the business part of it is why I've had a long career, because I loved the business piece of the music business.
Speaker A:And it is often the most important piece.
Speaker A:If you look at.
Speaker A:There are a lot of artists that have come and gone, many of them, you can.
Speaker A:There's a cause, a correlation between they weren't paying attention to the business side or I just go where my manager tells me to go.
Speaker A:I just show up here.
Speaker A:It's really hard to sustain a long bit.
Speaker A:Except for the artists like that are unusual and, you know, superstars.
Speaker A:But Then again, I could argue the case that they're superstars because they took care of their business.
Speaker A:And so the things that I was good at, and I knew it even before I got to Nashville, I was good at discipline, planning, strategy, execution.
Speaker A:P and L.
Speaker A:Like, I always was watching my money, and that I did.
Speaker A:When I had a paper route in first grade, I knew what I was spending and what I needed to do to make a profit.
Speaker A:And so all of those kind of, you know, skills that I learned, leadership, storytelling, understanding my audience, whether it be my band and my crew or a thousand people in a venue, I understood.
Speaker A:Or a record buying public that was waiting for my next record or came to my show and wanted to meet me afterward and for me to sign an autograph.
Speaker A:All of those kind of skills on how to pay attention to your brand and what the deliverable is were very.
Speaker A:I recognized it after I came out and saw that my corporate clients, they were finding value in my deliverable and how I delivered it.
Speaker A:And so all of that and probably that I began buying rental houses in the late 90s.
Speaker A:I understood the built environment and I understood construction, and I understood, you know, making sure that I've got three H vac guys or gals, but they were all guys.
Speaker A:I made sure I knew which plumbers did good work.
Speaker A:And having those people that, hey, Ron, the plumbing is out in whatever property.
Speaker A:Can you hustle over there?
Speaker A:My plumber and my vendors and my suppliers and tradespeople were always.
Speaker A:They always took care of me because I always took care of them.
Speaker A:So I understood how the ecosystem of subcontractors, vendors, suppliers worked, and that suited me well in the built environment, which I'm in right now.
Speaker A:So I think everything I did, it's almost like everything I've done in my life prepared me for this job and this moment.
Speaker A:And I think one of the blessings that I have in my life is that wherever I am, that's always my mindset.
Speaker A:That, oh, everything I did brought me to that.
Speaker A:This moment, whether it's putting out my memoir or the book I had out a couple of years ago, my moment.
Speaker A:It's as if everything I do prepares me for today.
Speaker A:And it's just kind of a tiny miracle.
Speaker A:Every day I'm like, I don't think there's anyone else on the planet who could be in this chair talking to Roxy about this journey, except for me.
Speaker B:That is right.
Speaker B:That's absolutely right.
Speaker B:And I love how you're living holistically.
Speaker B:You know, everybody.
Speaker B:Every moment brought you to where you Are today.
Speaker B:And it's incredible to think about, you.
Speaker A:Know, And I think everyone.
Speaker A:If we looked out the window here, by the way, your office is so cool.
Speaker B:Oh, thank you.
Speaker A:If we looked out the window and saw one person moving around you, and I could walk out there and say, can we talk to you for a minute?
Speaker A:We would find.
Speaker A:I would bet my eye teeth.
Speaker A:We would find that they are exactly that.
Speaker A:No one else could be where they are in this moment, at this time.
Speaker A:We are all a sum of our parts.
Speaker A:And what's cool about what you're doing and what I get to do in the world is we get to help other people kind of not just tell their story, but see their story.
Speaker A:I can't tell you how many times people come up to me and they're like, well, you know, I came out when I was 20, but it was, you know, years was much harder.
Speaker A:Years was.
Speaker A:Was different.
Speaker A:Or I did.
Speaker A:I got divorced when I was 40, you know, after.
Speaker A:I know it's not a big story.
Speaker A:I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker A:Think about this.
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:Your story is super unique, and only one person can be in this space.
Speaker A:And everything you did led you up to that moment of saying, hey, I'm going to advocate for myself or I'm going to advocate for a community that needs advocating for.
Speaker A:Everybody's got a book in them.
Speaker A:Everybody.
Speaker B:Everybody has a unique story.
Speaker B:And I think, like, you're saying true happiness, at least for me, is being in service to others, you know, and really trying to.
Speaker A:What else is there?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:What else is there?
Speaker B:You can't do it all for yourself.
Speaker B:You know, you gotta be out there to help people.
Speaker A:You know, you use the word happiness.
Speaker A:True happiness, right?
Speaker B:What is true happiness?
Speaker B:What is that?
Speaker A:When I think about my aunt Char, her son, my cousin David, he died when he was 13, very suddenly, complications from diabetes.
Speaker A:And I was 9 at the time.
Speaker A:He was 13, one year older than my boys are right now.
Speaker A:And my aunt, who had another child, David's little sister, my cousin Carrie.
Speaker A:As I've gotten older, I've always wondered, how did she do it?
Speaker A:How did she keep going?
Speaker A:And not just keep going, but thriving and, you know, bought a plane and started flying a plane.
Speaker A:Like, this is a remarkable woman, and she's my mentor when it comes to rental properties.
Speaker A:And, like, she's lived this incredible, joyful life.
Speaker A:And I've.
Speaker A:In my adult life, I've asked her, how did you do that?
Speaker A:And she said, one day at a time.
Speaker A:And one day at a time, she said, yes, there were times that I was obviously devastated and there were times like I lost my son.
Speaker A:But she said I was able to kind of respond to myself in the moment.
Speaker A:I have a daughter, I have my nieces and my nephews.
Speaker A:I have a mission.
Speaker A:I have a purpose.
Speaker A:And while I'm here, I just.
Speaker A:What else am I going to do?
Speaker A:I can't just shrink.
Speaker A:And that just.
Speaker A:I loved how she put it, that she responded to herself and we should be in continual dialogue with ourselves.
Speaker A:And yeah, I have bad days and could I wallow around in some self pity?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I have before, but I respond to myself.
Speaker A:I have conversations with myself.
Speaker A:And that is the only thing that we can do is respond.
Speaker A:And I actually say out loud, okay, get up, get up.
Speaker A:Yeah, because.
Speaker A:And the most gratifying things about life are being in service to others.
Speaker A:I have spent a good deal of my life serving like my dream.
Speaker A:And I want to go be on the Grand Ole Opry.
Speaker A:I want to be on the radio.
Speaker A:And there has to be a focus and somewhat kind of a narcissism.
Speaker A:This is the only thing that matters.
Speaker A:You can't make it in the arts or entertainment or broadcast if you're not singularly focused most of the time.
Speaker A:But I've served myself enough, I can do for others.
Speaker A:And it actually feels better than anything else.
Speaker B:It really does.
Speaker B:And once you hit those goals like you're saying that you set for yourself, then it's like, okay, that kind of wears off.
Speaker B:Then it's on to the next.
Speaker B:And you're constantly moving forward.
Speaker B:Like you're saying, how are you living iconically right now?
Speaker A:Such a great question.
Speaker A:I am living iconically in letting go and releasing expectations that the world has of a woman, a queer woman in her mid-50s.
Speaker A:Example.
Speaker A:I began having hot flashes a couple of years ago.
Speaker A:So, I mean, full on menopause and because in my last role and in my current role, like how I show up at work and I have a lot of power, right.
Speaker A:I have a lot of position, I have a lot of influence in the companies where in the company.
Speaker A:I last worked out in this one and I made a decision that when I have a hot flash, I'm going to say it out loud.
Speaker A:So I would be in meetings, whether it be with clients or my team, and you can feel it, you can see it right there.
Speaker B:It bubbles up.
Speaker A:You actually emanate heat.
Speaker A:So what I would do is say, take my jacket off.
Speaker A:And I would say, you might notice that I'm red right now.
Speaker A:And you might Notice that my neck is a little blotchy.
Speaker A:I'm okay, I'm having a hot flash and in about 90 seconds I'm gonna be freezing cold.
Speaker A:And I love the reaction that I don't do it for shock value.
Speaker A:I do it because that's a decision I've made.
Speaker A:And it's usually, I'm usually in meetings with men, you know, sometimes women, but almost always men.
Speaker A:And almost every time men will say, oh, my wife isn't that, or oh, my sister or my mom that.
Speaker A:My mom's in that right now.
Speaker A:And it almost always sparks like a two minute dialogue about, you know, what's that like?
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, it's fine.
Speaker A:It just happens like twice a day.
Speaker A:I have a hot flash and again, I'm going to be freezing in two minutes.
Speaker A:And I like that feels iconic to me to own that.
Speaker A:And because I have the power, position and resource and safety to say it, I say it.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:It's also creating a bridge that you didn't know existed before with that other person.
Speaker A:You know, nobody doesn't know someone going through menopause, right?
Speaker A:And if I can just own it and say it.
Speaker A:And the same thing happens with, you know, being a queer person.
Speaker A:I'll have people, you know, I'll, you know, talk about my, my wife or my kids at work.
Speaker A:And sometimes you're like, you can see people, but then they'll kind of pull me aside.
Speaker A:You can see they're visible.
Speaker A:Like, wow, she just said that out loud in a meeting or in a presentation.
Speaker A:And people usually follow up at some point.
Speaker A:It might be a year, it might be, you know, an hour after, they'll be like, you know, thank you for sharing that I've got, I've got a trans daughter or I've got, you know, like a couple of real dudes at work.
Speaker A:Like one of them said, my son came out to me a couple of years ago and I just.
Speaker A:Thank you for, I want to use the word normalizing, but we are normal.
Speaker A:And, but thank you for making it more talked about.
Speaker A:And I think that's, I think that's living iconically.
Speaker B:That is, that's absolutely living iconically.
Speaker B:What advice would you give your 2 year 25 year olds?
Speaker A:Enjoy your success.
Speaker A:Having grown up poor, I, you know, I didn't, I was so careful with money, like overly careful with money.
Speaker A:And even my, my business manager at one point after September 11th, so I would have been 31, he called me into his office, he said, I want you to you take a vacation.
Speaker A:I was like, what do you mean?
Speaker A:And he was like, spend some of your money.
Speaker A:You don't spend any of your money.
Speaker A:I've seen this before.
Speaker A:You're going to burn out.
Speaker A:Enjoy your success.
Speaker A:And I was like, what do you mean?
Speaker A:I don't spend my money?
Speaker A:I just bought a rental house, another rental last week.
Speaker A:And he was like, that doesn't count.
Speaker A:He said, go on a vacation.
Speaker A:I said, well, I was just in Europe.
Speaker A:And he said, no, you tacked that onto a tour.
Speaker A:I'm telling you, enjoy, enjoy yourself.
Speaker A:Do something for yourself.
Speaker A:So that would be my advice, is like, have a little more fun.
Speaker A:I didn't have enough fun.
Speaker B:And what does self care look like for you today?
Speaker A:Self care for me is finding a day where I don't have to speak to, you know, tapping out completely.
Speaker A:You know, if my wife lets me go upstate or I let her, we try to switch off and got a place in the Hudson Valley.
Speaker A:It's important that I push her to tap out.
Speaker A:Go get on the train, drive up there, be gone.
Speaker A:As a parent, as a wife, as a worker, go tap out.
Speaker A:And for me, when I get to tap out for a day or two, it includes my not even opening my mouth or speaking to anyone.
Speaker A:I'm not very social.
Speaker A:I don't want to go like, let's go have dinner with.
Speaker A:Tapping out is putting on my hocus and walking 15 miles and in silence or a podcast or music, but.
Speaker A:Or fixing something in the house, tinkering with something, but actually not speaking to another human being.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And also watching a documentary of documentaries.
Speaker B:See, there is something so nice about that.
Speaker B:Recharging and just being quiet.
Speaker A:You know, I am.
Speaker A:I think it's called an ambivert.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:I can very.
Speaker A:You can put me in a room with a thousand people or 10 people.
Speaker A:I am very interested in people.
Speaker A:If I go to a drugstore, a Duane, cvs, Duane read, I will go in and have a con.
Speaker A:Like, I do like people.
Speaker A:It's not that I'm antisocial.
Speaker A:I like people.
Speaker A:I'm interested in people.
Speaker A:But I also need that, that counterbalance of complete like silence and isolation.
Speaker A:I need my battery filled.
Speaker A:And I, I'm not a social person.
Speaker A:I, my.
Speaker A:I tend to.
Speaker A:I would love.
Speaker A:I think I fantasize about a year off and, and reading books and watching documentaries and walking.
Speaker A:Walking.
Speaker A:I love, I love that.
Speaker A:So that's my self care.
Speaker B: your last studio album was in: Speaker B:Will we be hearing any new music coming up?
Speaker A:I Don't know when, but absolutely, I will always.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm not through with music.
Speaker A:Music's not through with me.
Speaker A:And I'm working on a musical right now.
Speaker A:Gene Smart bought the life rights of my.
Speaker A:Gene Smart acquired the life rights of my book.
Speaker A:Like me, my memoir.
Speaker A:And we're working on a Broadway musical.
Speaker B:Oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker B:When will it launch?
Speaker A:We don't know.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:We don't.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We've just.
Speaker A:People are coming onto the project.
Speaker A:So the book writer and the.
Speaker A:I'll be co writing music for it.
Speaker A:So the team is coming together and these things take a long time.
Speaker A:So I don't know when that will be, but we're headed in that direction.
Speaker A:And I know I'll make another record.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I don't know when.
Speaker A:And I often.
Speaker A:That tracks with my whole career.
Speaker A:I never know when I know it.
Speaker A:When I.
Speaker A:In my belly, I'm like, oh, it's time to start pulling out the songs and hit the studio.
Speaker B:And that's a great partner to have.
Speaker B:Jean Smart, wow.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker A:She's amazing and lovely and her show, all of what she does is so good and so funny.
Speaker A:Hacks, of course, is genius.
Speaker A:I remember her telling me about this new thing she was doing, and I was like, what is it?
Speaker A:She said, it's called Hacks.
Speaker A:And she said, kind of don't like the title because I think it sounds like someone hacking into computers.
Speaker A:And she said, but it's about this comedian, you know, in, you know, in her golden years, and she makes a comeback.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, that sounds great.
Speaker A:She said, I'm doing it because I think it's great.
Speaker A:And then watching the world, you know, receive it, and I'm like, I feel just like I was on the inside, you know, like, you knew before.
Speaker B:I knew before.
Speaker A:And I just, just.
Speaker A:That's a cool feeling.
Speaker A:And she's.
Speaker A:She couldn't be.
Speaker A:She is one of the most talented people on planet Earth.
Speaker A:And every time I talk to her, get together with her and have a meal or have a zoom call, I'm just like, that's Jane's heart.
Speaker B:Growing up watching her.
Speaker B:I mean, she's been on so many amazing projects.
Speaker A:She has been.
Speaker A:And something people might not know about her, you know, the queer community loves hacks.
Speaker A:Queer community love Designing Women.
Speaker A:But she was an early advocate, including, but not limited to.
Speaker A:I think her first kind of work was on stage telling stories about.
Speaker A:There was a story that.
Speaker A:A play that she did about a gay person.
Speaker A:Like, she's like the Goat.
Speaker A:The OG of being a straight ally.
Speaker A:It's who she is, and she thinks that my life journey is valuable, and I love her for it.
Speaker B:Well, it is very interesting.
Speaker B:So you'll have to come back on the iconic midlife journey.
Speaker A:I'll bring Jean.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What if I bring Jean?
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Wonderful.
Speaker B:Wonderful.
Speaker A:She's an amazing iconic woman, and I've loved talking to you today.
Speaker A:Me too.
Speaker B:Me too.
Speaker B:I've had such a wonderful time.
Speaker B:I'd love to wrap up with a little game that you play.
Speaker B:Okay, here we go.
Speaker B:This is a little rapid fire game.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Love rapid fire.
Speaker B:Okay, here we go.
Speaker B:Cowboy boots or combat boots?
Speaker A:Combat boots.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:One word your younger self would use to describe you now.
Speaker A:Happy.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:Biggest midlife flex.
Speaker A:My career pivot.
Speaker B:That's a good one.
Speaker B:Guilty pleasure that you're 0% guilty about.
Speaker A:I've been watching suits.
Speaker B:Oh, you are.
Speaker B:You have?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And it's so not like me.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I started watching it within the past year and I.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:And it's cheeky and, you know, and I love it.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker B:What did you think?
Speaker B:How do you think Meghan is on the show?
Speaker B:Meghan Markle.
Speaker A:She's amazing.
Speaker A:She's amazing.
Speaker A:And I love Lewis Litt, whatever his character.
Speaker A:I don't even know the real the actors names except for Meghan Markle, but I love it and I do not feel guilty about it.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:It's my.
Speaker A:It's my new best friend.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:Oh, that's great.
Speaker B:Okay, we have to put suits in the queue.
Speaker B:I need to watch that.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:I'd been seeing people watching it for years, and I was like, I would.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That looks dumb.
Speaker A:I never watched that.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I think the characters are really dynamic.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker B:Oh, that's great.
Speaker A:Actually.
Speaker A:It's a great show.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I'm gonna put it in the queue for sure.
Speaker B:It's gotten so much, you know, attention.
Speaker A:There's a reason so many people have watched it and the, you know, the wardrobe and Meghan Markle has, you know, the perfect physique and another woman.
Speaker A:Two.
Speaker A:Two more women on the show that, like, they're dressed to the nines and just.
Speaker A:I'm like, they look great in that.
Speaker B:And so it's got all the check marks, the good style, like the fun dialogue, the curse words.
Speaker A:It's like a network thing.
Speaker A:But they dropped the F.
Speaker A:They dropped, you know, the bad language, the.
Speaker A:They don't say the F bomb.
Speaker A:But I like it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, you're gonna like it.
Speaker A:Let me know what you think.
Speaker B:Okay, Definitely.
Speaker B:Most iconic woman over 40 that you know or that it's somebody in history.
Speaker B:It could be anyone.
Speaker A:Jean Smart.
Speaker B:I mean, duh, duh.
Speaker B:Speed that one up.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Jean Smart.
Speaker B:Okay, That's a good one.
Speaker B:Midlife mantra in three words or less.
Speaker A:Use your power.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker A:Use my power.
Speaker A:You own that a little bit more.
Speaker B:And say it over and over again, right?
Speaker A:Use my power.
Speaker B:Use my power.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Red carpet moment or Front Porch Chill?
Speaker A:Oh, front porch chill.
Speaker A:100% easy.
Speaker B:No glam, just easy.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It is a whole job in and of itself.
Speaker B:It is your go to karaoke song.
Speaker A:I've never done karaoke.
Speaker B:You've never done karaoke?
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:I don't believe that.
Speaker B:Never done it.
Speaker B:Well, I guess you don't really have to when you're a singer.
Speaker B:You can.
Speaker B:You're cutting your own albums.
Speaker A:I mean, I've been places where people get up and do it.
Speaker A:I've never done it, really.
Speaker B:So at a party, if some.
Speaker B:Has somebody asked you, oh, will you sing this song?
Speaker B:Or will you just sing one of your own?
Speaker B:Or is it usually somebody.
Speaker A:Just laugh.
Speaker A:You're crazy.
Speaker A:And it's not that I'm like, too good to do.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Maybe some of it is that I'm an alto.
Speaker A:And most.
Speaker A:Most songs that I would sing of other people's are like, the thing about being a live musician, when I used to play shows and gigs, I could take the songs that I wanted to sing, and if they were in a women's key, like, I can transpose them down a half.
Speaker A:Half step or a whole, because I haven't.
Speaker A:I'm an alto, so most famous songs, it's like women, like, showing off their range.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I've got a wide range, but it.
Speaker A:It skews a bit lower.
Speaker A:So maybe it's always been that.
Speaker A:That I.
Speaker A:I know that those karaoke songs are cut in the key that the artist cut it in, so I can't change the key.
Speaker A:But also, like, why would I sing karaoke?
Speaker A:Like, give me a guitar, a piano.
Speaker A:I could do that.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And I just.
Speaker A:I love watching other people do it.
Speaker A:I think it's amazing.
Speaker A:But I've.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've got an idea.
Speaker A:And my songs are always like.
Speaker A:People say, your song is in the karaoke.
Speaker A:Come do it.
Speaker B:And I'm like, okay, the next time you come back, I will have a karaoke machine in here ready for You.
Speaker A:And we'll sing my songs.
Speaker B:Yes, we'll see your songs.
Speaker B:And Gene will be here because they're.
Speaker A:Cut in the key that I recorded them in.
Speaker A:I know the key works for me because they're my songs.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That makes sense.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:We'll do it.
Speaker B:You're like, okay, that was.
Speaker A:I'll sing karaoke with you.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:This will be so fun.
Speaker B:Do you have a favorite cocktail?
Speaker A:I don't drink.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Incredible.
Speaker B:I'll help.
Speaker B:Some fresh water for you then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's not.
Speaker A:And I used to drink a little here and there.
Speaker A:I'm not in the program.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A: for me, and I had a stroke in: Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That was migraine related.
Speaker A:And I'm just.
Speaker A:Also, I don't want to drink.
Speaker A:I don't drink because I want to wake up with an advantage.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker A:And because I have 10,000 sunrises left, alcohol makes me feel bad.
Speaker A:And I do like the taste of wine, but it's like, just.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So my favorite drink, though, is Fresca.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:Oh, I love Fresca.
Speaker B:That's nice.
Speaker A:And I didn't know until, like, a few years ago that they brought it back, so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Fresca or water, Orange juice, coffee.
Speaker A:I like grapefruit juice.
Speaker A:Had some this morning.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:So I'm one of those, you know, not.
Speaker A:I'm not sober.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I just don't drink.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:As I've gotten older, I notice a difference.
Speaker B:Even one glass of wine the next day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Shit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, don't have time for a headache.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:I've got to do.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Let's go.
Speaker B:Let's freaking go.
Speaker B:We've got a lot going on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So one thing.
Speaker B:Oh, well, this might be the answer to the next question.
Speaker B:One thing you finally gave up and don't miss at all.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I would say giving it up meant that I.
Speaker A:It was something I did with regularity.
Speaker A:One thing I gave up.
Speaker A:And don't miss it all.
Speaker A: I haven't had meats and since: Speaker B:Oh, we.
Speaker B:Was it because of, like, an animal?
Speaker B:Like, just.
Speaker A:I got food poisoning at one point, and I thought it was from the chicken.
Speaker A:It was probably from the hollandaise sauce.
Speaker A:But I went, like, a week without meat.
Speaker A:And then I was like, because.
Speaker A:And this is very much my personality.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I tend to do extreme.
Speaker A:I tend to go in extremes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Which is, I think, from growing up poor and hyper disciplined.
Speaker A:When you're a closeted queer person, you get hyper disciplined about things.
Speaker A:And, and so I went a week without meat and I was like, maybe I'll go two weeks, maybe I'll go three weeks.
Speaker A:And it's been, you know, since the late 90s.
Speaker B:And you don't miss it, right?
Speaker A:I don't miss it.
Speaker A:I think, you know, I, I need more iron and protein.
Speaker A:And now, you know, I, I miss, I miss it like I smell bacon and I say to my wife, breathe.
Speaker B:In my face, get all the air.
Speaker A:But I kind of like, I don't like to break my streaks.
Speaker A:I'm very much into.
Speaker A:Nope, I made a decision.
Speaker A:I don't do that.
Speaker B:It's discipline right there.
Speaker B:I mean, it is, it's carried you through.
Speaker A:Yeah, I just.
Speaker A:And I should probably relax a little bit and have a hot dog.
Speaker B:That could be later.
Speaker B:That could be later.
Speaker A:But at this point, you know, I, you know, I, I would like to live to 100 and I feel like I'm pescatarian, so I eat dairy and eggs and so, yeah, that's what I gave up and don't really miss it.
Speaker B:Okay, that's a good one.
Speaker B:Hot take.
Speaker B:Therapy is blank, necessary.
Speaker B:Everyone needs it.
Speaker B:Don't you think?
Speaker A:Everyone needs it?
Speaker B:I'm a believer in that.
Speaker A:I've been going to therapy since I was 23.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:I wouldn't have been able, I wouldn't be here.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be, I would not have forgiven, been able to forgive people in my life.
Speaker A:And I wouldn't have been able to seek forgiveness and my life were it not for the skills and the things and the self reflection and the habits that I learned in therapy.
Speaker A:Therapy is as needed as water and sustenance and everybody needs therapy.
Speaker A:Everybody.
Speaker A:What a gift.
Speaker A:What a gift it is.
Speaker B:There's something so cathartic about talking to somebody who is not in your orbit.
Speaker A:You know, just a true third party.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:Who has no skin in the game, you know, can tell you yes, no, you know, and give you honest feedback.
Speaker A:In fact, I.
Speaker A: In: Speaker B:Oh, you did?
Speaker B:Hoffman.
Speaker A:Wouldn't you think that changed my life?
Speaker A:It kind of took all of what I had learned in therapy for, you know, the 15 years prior.
Speaker A:And it really coalesced and put into action the true tenets of, you know, compassion, love, forgiveness.
Speaker A:It, The Hoffman process changed my life in so many amazing ways.
Speaker A:I think about it every day.
Speaker A:I still do.
Speaker A:It changed me and helped me Continue to grow.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I'm a Hoffman grad.
Speaker A:Did you go?
Speaker B:No, I didn't, but I've been really wanting to.
Speaker A:Life changing.
Speaker B:Life changing.
Speaker A:That's a friend of mine, Brooke Baldwin, who is a journalist.
Speaker A:She and I were texting a couple of years ago and.
Speaker A:And we hadn't checked in for a few months, and she said, by the way, I want to talk to you about a place called the Hoffman Institute.
Speaker A:If you haven't ever considered it, you really should.
Speaker A: And I wrote Hoffman: Speaker B:It's like, I should have known it.
Speaker B:You're like, been there, done that.
Speaker B:Definitely have the diploma.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:And I've encouraged a lot of people to go.
Speaker A:And back in the day, you kind of had to have a recommendation, recommendation letter to go.
Speaker A:It was hard to get in.
Speaker A:And, you know, people had to kind of sponsor and vouch for you.
Speaker A:And I have.
Speaker A:I sponsored many people, and I am forever, forever grateful to Rodney Kral, who sponsored me.
Speaker B:That's wonderful.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:That's also in the queue.
Speaker B:That must get done.
Speaker A:Yeah, Go do it.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Change your life.
Speaker B:Good, good.
Speaker B:And last one.
Speaker B:Fill in the blank.
Speaker B:Midlife is not a crisis.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker A:An opportunity.
Speaker B:There it is.
Speaker B:There it is.
Speaker B:There it is.
Speaker A:There it is.
Speaker A:That's okay.
Speaker A:Will we do that?
Speaker A:Sounds easy to sing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Not a lot of keys, just kind of like in the middle.
Speaker B:Okay, great, great.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker A:We've got this.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:Thank you so much, Shelly.
Speaker B:It's been a pleasure having you on today.
Speaker A:What a delight to talk to you and again, thank you for the work you're doing in the world to help others not just know their story, but tell their story.
Speaker B:Oh, thank you so much.
Speaker B:That means everything to me.
Speaker B:Really important.
Speaker B:Please tell everybody where they can find you.
Speaker A:They can find me on.
Speaker A:On the socials.
Speaker A:My name is Shelly Wright, but it's spelled with.
Speaker A:With the C, C, H, E, L, Y, W, R, I, g, h, t.
Speaker A:Shelly.com.
Speaker A:oddly, that's had it forever.
Speaker A:LinkedIn.
Speaker A:So if you're.
Speaker A:You want to connect with me through the corporate Lens, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm out there.
Speaker A:I'm easily Google able.
Speaker A:Find me.
Speaker A:Yes, I'd love to connect.
Speaker B:Wonderful.
Speaker B:Well, thank you so much.
Speaker A:Thank you, Roxy, Shelley, thank you for.
Speaker B:Showing us what it looks like to stand in your truth with grit, grace, and zero apologies.
Speaker B:Your story is a masterclass in courage and reinvention and such a powerful reminder that midlife isn't about fading out it's about coming in louder, strong, stronger, and more yourself than ever before.
Speaker B:To everyone listening, if today's conversation moved you, inspired you, or made you feel a little more seen, make sure to follow the iconic midlife on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker B:Leave a review 5 star please and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it.
Speaker B:You can watch the full interview on YouTube today, tomorrow and follow us on all of the social media platforms Heconic Midlife and you can also follow me edcarpetroxy for more unfiltered midlife magic.
Speaker B:Until next time, stay bold, stay brilliant, and stay iconic.
